WDFW LE Great Resource for HuntWA - Please Be Respectful

[growler]

Ucwarden, glad to see you are still fighting the good fight. Truly a guy who can make a difference, and if he can't he will piss you off to no end trying. While I rarely post, my respect for this guy will likely give my profession away. As a former co worker of mine, I can only encourage those on this board to use him as a very valuable, extremely knowledgeable resource that has fought all of his professional life for the fish and wildlife we all love to pursue and enjoy. Congratulations again on your retirement, thanks for your service and committment and thanks for not writing any smartass comments when you personalized my copy of Operation CODY. I just loaned it to Z today.

[ucwarden]

Ucwarden, glad to see you are still fighting the good fight. Truly a guy who can make a difference, and if he can't he will piss you off to no end trying. While I rarely post, my respect for this guy will likely give my profession away. As a former co worker of mine, I can only encourage those on this board to use him as a very valuable, extremely knowledgeable resource that has fought all of his professional life for the fish and wildlife we all love to pursue and enjoy. Congratulations again on your retirement, thanks for your service and committment and thanks for not writing any smartass comments when you personalized my copy of Operation CODY. I just loaned it to Z today.

Thanks, but who is going to help Z with the big words....glad I put pictures in there.  Quote me to him.

[Blackjaw]

OK, here is my take on why a lot of people have a gripe with Wildlife law enforcement, and for the record I don't have the answer how to rectify this situation.

I think a lot of the reason people are put off by Wildlife law enforcement is the unique nature of the job which leads the Guilty until proven innocent stance they take. I.E. If you are in a steel shot zone they need to check your shells because you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are walking up the trail with a steelhead they need to check your punch card because you are guilty until proven innocent, etc. This style of enforcement seems unique to wildlife laws in that in other aspects of law enforcement you have to be caught in the act, or be caught as the result of criminal investigation. 

[pianoman9701]

OK, here is my take on why a lot of people have a gripe with Wildlife law enforcement, and for the record I don't have the answer how to rectify this situation.

I think a lot of the reason people are put off by Wildlife law enforcement is the unique nature of the job which leads the Guilty until proven innocent stance they take. I.E. If you are in a steel shot zone they need to check your shells because you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are walking up the trail with a steelhead they need to check your punch card because you are guilty until proven innocent, etc. This style of enforcement seems unique to wildlife laws in that in other aspects of law enforcement you have to be caught in the act, or be caught as the result of criminal investigation.

Well and that's partly to do with the fact that hunting and fishing are privileges and not rights. They really have very little with which to protect my resources without checking people and their tags. I have no problem ever showing my shells, my fish, my meat, or my tags to an officer. If you know and follow the regs to the letter, you should have no problem either. I may well deny them requested access to search my vehicle, but I will certainly show them what I have and have done so with no problems. That's the price you pay (besides the price of the tag) to exercise your privilege to hunt/fish. Small price to keep my resources intact, IMHO.

[KFhunter]

OK, here is my take on why a lot of people have a gripe with Wildlife law enforcement, and for the record I don't have the answer how to rectify this situation.

I think a lot of the reason people are put off by Wildlife law enforcement is the unique nature of the job which leads the Guilty until proven innocent stance they take. I.E. If you are in a steel shot zone they need to check your shells because you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are walking up the trail with a steelhead they need to check your punch card because you are guilty until proven innocent, etc. This style of enforcement seems unique to wildlife laws in that in other aspects of law enforcement you have to be caught in the act, or be caught as the result of criminal investigation.

Well and that's partly to do with the fact that hunting and fishing are privileges and not rights. They really have very little with which to protect my resources without checking people and their tags. I have no problem ever showing my shells, my fish, my meat, or my tags to an officer. If you know and follow the regs to the letter, you should have no problem either. I may well deny them requested access to search my vehicle, but I will certainly show them what I have and have done so with no problems. That's the price you pay (besides the price of the tag) to exercise your privilege to hunt/fish. Small price to keep my resources intact, IMHO.

good luck with that if they have reason to believe your hunting - road hunting etc
too many grouse behind the seat of your pickup isn't going to be off limits to inspection, especially if you open the door and some feathers flutter out 

point is they have a bit more in regards to search authority than the average police stopping you for speeding - and I know you know this P-man just clarfying for others who might read that.


I'm not implying any wrong doing on your part P-man, it's just a strawman arguement and you know how I love those 

[pianoman9701]

OK, here is my take on why a lot of people have a gripe with Wildlife law enforcement, and for the record I don't have the answer how to rectify this situation.

I think a lot of the reason people are put off by Wildlife law enforcement is the unique nature of the job which leads the Guilty until proven innocent stance they take. I.E. If you are in a steel shot zone they need to check your shells because you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are walking up the trail with a steelhead they need to check your punch card because you are guilty until proven innocent, etc. This style of enforcement seems unique to wildlife laws in that in other aspects of law enforcement you have to be caught in the act, or be caught as the result of criminal investigation.

Well and that's partly to do with the fact that hunting and fishing are privileges and not rights. They really have very little with which to protect my resources without checking people and their tags. I have no problem ever showing my shells, my fish, my meat, or my tags to an officer. If you know and follow the regs to the letter, you should have no problem either. I may well deny them requested access to search my vehicle, but I will certainly show them what I have and have done so with no problems. That's the price you pay (besides the price of the tag) to exercise your privilege to hunt/fish. Small price to keep my resources intact, IMHO.

good luck with that if they have reason to believe your hunting - road hunting etc
too many grouse behind the seat of your pickup isn't going to be off limits to inspection, especially if you open the door and some feathers flutter out 

point is they have a bit more in regards to search authority than the average police stopping you for speeding - and I know you know this P-man just clarfying for others who might read that.


I'm not implying any wrong doing on your part P-man, it's just a strawman arguement and you know how I love those 

I am polite with LE from any department. But, I won't submit to a voluntary search of myself or my vehicle by any law enforcement. If they have PC, they don't need my permission. I also won't voluntarily surrender my firearm. I will politely comply with all orders, but if an officer asks me for a safety inspection of my firearm, I will gladly show him the empty action with the firearm in my hands, as I have done in the past. There's no strawman argument here at all. An officer does have increased powers to stop you and check for proper licensing if he reasonably suspects you're hunting. He can look around your vehicle, in the truck bed, or through the windows all he wants, but the 4th Amendment protects me everywhere in the US except where I choose to give it up. If there are any DFW LE that would care to comment, I'd feel obliged.

[KFhunter]

I'm not WDFW Police so I'll defer to them as well if they'd like to comment on their search authority. 
I'm pretty sure they have unfettered access to the cab and containers of your vehicle if they think your hunting or transporting game (reasonable suspicion -some articulateable facts).  That falls short of Probable Cause which is what you mention - they don't need PC. 


For the weapon safety check I cannot imagine any LE from any department, allowing people to conduct their own safety check during any kind of stop be it a terry stop or F&W stop.  Perhaps a F&W officer could have you slide a bolt open on a long gun if your in the car and the barrel is down and it's obvious you couldn't swing the gun up and point it at them.  Personally I wouldn't in case it was loaded - it would really suck if they had a discharge   
For state/local traffic stops don't even think about it 

[Bob33]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

Your equipment may be searched without warrant when hunting or fishing. That includes containers not in plain view such and trunks, boat wells, etc.

This authority is unique to hunting and fishing.

[bigtex]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

Your equipment may be searched without warrant when hunting or fishing. That includes containers not in plain view such and trunks, boat wells, etc.

This authority is unique to hunting and fishing.

RCW 77.15.094 applies even more to searches

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.094

Also, ALL law enforcement officers have the same search/inspection authority as WDFW Officers have when enforcing fish and wildlife laws. So a county deputy or USFS Officer can do the same thing a WDFW Officer can.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Just have to portray that they are enforcing or investigating a Wildlife law?

[pianoman9701]

I'm not WDFW Police so I'll defer to them as well if they'd like to comment on their search authority. 
I'm pretty sure they have unfettered access to the cab and containers of your vehicle if they think your hunting or transporting game (reasonable suspicion -some articulateable facts).  That falls short of Probable Cause which is what you mention - they don't need PC. 


For the weapon safety check I cannot imagine any LE from any department, allowing people to conduct their own safety check during any kind of stop be it a terry stop or F&W stop.  Perhaps a F&W officer could have you slide a bolt open on a long gun if your in the car and the barrel is down and it's obvious you couldn't swing the gun up and point it at them.  Personally I wouldn't in case it was loaded - it would really suck if they had a discharge   
For state/local traffic stops don't even think about it 

I've been asked for a safety check twice. Both times, the officer asked me to show him the action, which in my car, is always open anyway.

I understand about coolers being checked and such, but I'm not clear that they're allowed to search your car other than to ask to look in a cooler. Again, I absolutely am polite and courteous. I just don't relinquish my rights under the 4th. If they tell me they're going to do it, I'll politely stand aside with the caviat that I don't submit. This has nothing to do with "what have you got to hide?". This has to do strictly with the observance of my Constitutional rights. I too, would love to hear from DFW LE on the specifics of that and what constitutes a legal search of a vehicle in a hunting situation.

[Landowner]

UCWARDEN did an excellent job in Columbia County when he was here.  Respected and hard working. 

[ucwarden]

UCWARDEN did an excellent job in Columbia County when he was here.  Respected and hard working.

Thanks!

[Bob33]

"I understand about coolers being checked and such, but I'm not clear that they're allowed to search your car other than to ask to look in a cooler."

They can legally search any part of your vehicle they suspect may contain evidence of a fish or wildlife violation.

"Fish and wildlife officers and ex officio fish and wildlife officers may make a reasonable search without warrant of a vessel, conveyances, vehicles, containers, packages, or other receptacles for fish, seaweed, shellfish, and wildlife which they have reason to believe contain evidence of a violation of law or rules adopted pursuant to this title and seize evidence as needed for law enforcement."

[pianoman9701]

Thanks Bob.