Since Wolves

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Call the Idaho Fish and Game and see what the say. I've talked to them and they blame the wolves 100%.

I'll give you a report with pictures, I start hunting Nov 21. The guy I'm going with has been guiding his wife to get her bull right now and he's seeing lots of elk in unit 14. He's hunting unit 16 next week, but last year in 16 he told me he hasn't seen that many elk in a long time.

[KFhunter]

USFW has introduced wolves in many states, even as far east as Georgia where they unsuccessfully introduced the Red Wolves, most of you probably didn't even know there was such a thing let alone in Georgia.

If you don't think this is our future you got your head in the sand.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

the wolves move to domestics, next thing you know your kids are waiting for the bus in cages.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/266402nm12-02-07.htm
LAS CRUCES— Catron County parents say they're just concerned about the safety of their children.
    Animal activists say it's an overreaction.
    Reserve Independent Schools is building wolf-proof shelters for school bus stops in southwest New Mexico, where the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has reintroduced the Mexican gray wolf.


http://americansforprosperity.org/california/legislativealerts/outrageous-kid-cages-at-school-bus-stops/
California – Americans for Prosperity calls for reform of the Endangered Species Act.

The Endangered Species Act has been transformed from a balanced conservation policy to an instrument used to pursue radical environmental agendas. Abuses of the Act have led to thousands of job losses, hundreds of terminated projects, and countless invasions of private property rights. State’s rights should not be infringed upon through the ESA’s broad applications of the Commerce Clause. In addition, plants and animals, not in danger of extinction, shouldn’t be granted rights that impede business, industry, and American prosperity.



Read more: http://americansforprosperity.org/california/legislativealerts/outrageous-kid-cages-at-school-bus-stops/#ixzz2i2rEyvLt

http://www.gilbertwatch.com/gilbertwatch/index.cfm/blog/wolves-devastate-arizonas-animals-and-economy-and-force-children-into-cages/
Wolves Devastate Arizona's Animals and Economy, and Force Children into Cages

What a bunch of emotional hogwash! Wolf proof school bus cages? Evidently they weren't worried about cougars or bears, huh? Those animals actually kill children as do dogs quite regularly. Never heard of a wolf proof school bus stop in Alaska or Canada. Those New Mexican kids must be more tasty to wolves. 

[mountainman]

Why in so many areas, where Rocky mtn elk have migrated, the wdfw wants them cleaned out completely? Ie: Methow Valley, and parts north of the Wenatchee river? Given, they are not a native species, but the wolves we now have, which also are not a native species to Washington, are allowed to grow? Now THAT'S emotional hogwash!

[KFhunter]

I'll end up with a shelter at the end of my driveway I have no doubt.


Wife heard wolves out the bedroom window, she doesn't care if the odds are 1 in 1 billion...if there is ANY chance our kids could be hurt she's going to have her shelter 

reminds me, I'm suppost to park the old truck at the end of the driveway until I can get a shelter up 

[KFhunter]

I don't know if you're married or have kids sitka-blacktail,  but you'd have to pretty solid in your beliefs to send your kids out to the bus in the dark after hearing wolves out side.

[Humptulips]

 then pissed me off when they do everything they can to hide wolf predation on livestock.

Didn't you mean they stopped people from freeloading by claiming every predation was by a wolf so they could get a check?

You and your buddies own livestock?

If you knew anything about the compensation program you would know livestock doesn't have to be killed by wolves to be compensated. Cougar kills your beef you can still put in a claim. Compensation for wolf damage has a different funding source but you can still put in a claim for non-wolf related wildlife damage to livestock or crops.

[KFhunter]

I was talking about the caps on compensation per ranch per year.

Wildlife Damage Compensation.

The Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is directed to, subject to funding limits, monetarily compensate the owners of commercial crops damaged by deer or elk and the owners of commercial livestock that are killed or significantly injured by bears, cougars, or wolves. Each individual claim by a crop or livestock owner is eligible to be paid the value of the lost crop less any payments received by a nonprofit organization up to a maximum of $10,000. For livestock, the compensation is $200 for each lost sheep and $1,500 for each lost head of cattle or horse.


The bigger part of the loss isn't direct kills on livestock, but harassment of the animals.  The whole herd comes in with low weight.  Many of the lost cattle are never found, how do you document a wolf kill if you can't find the carcass?

[Humptulips]

To tell the truth I'm not too worried about wolves here on the Olympic Penninsula. At the rate the population of deer and elk are dropping there won't be anything for them to eat when they get here.
It's cougar here and WDFW knows it. Privately they admit it.
In 4 days of hard deer hunting I saw exactly one deer and most of the hunters have gave up too, some have moved on. Kind of like certain people that head for ID.
The predator situation is surely cumulative. We had coyotes and the deer and elk managed. Add in more bear and cougar when they made them game animals and they started a slow decline. Speeded up that decline in 96 when they took away hounds. Still a few elk around and some deer but I imagine we will go over the cliff when wolves get here.
And yes I imagine the cougar numbers will drop along with coyotes. They'll surely decline if there is nothing left for them to eat.
Don't even talk to me about habitat as that is pure hogwash. FS sucks for habitat anymore but there are plenty of areas with great habitat and no game. Never have I seen an overbrowsed area in this neck of the woods.

[Humptulips]

I was talking about the caps on compensation per ranch per year.

KF,
My comment was pointed more at Cougartails post.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Humptulips, you gotta admit a lot of it here on the Peninsula is habitat. In the 70's I used to hunt the East Hump and it was a great area before it got turned into an overgrown Douglas fir plantation. Fir plantations are fine if there are lots of clearcuts so there's some food for the herds, but you get into 15 yer old reprod, and it's a dead zone. Not much on the ground except a few mushrooms. In the 70s the East hump had a good mix of evergreens and hardwoods, so even though it was older 2nd growth, it still supported a lot of animals. Until they start logging it again, there won't be much there.

[AspenBud]

Humptulips, you gotta admit a lot of it here on the Peninsula is habitat. In the 70's I used to hunt the East Hump and it was a great area before it got turned into an overgrown Douglas fir plantation. Fir plantations are fine if there are lots of clearcuts so there's some food for the herds, but you get into 15 yer old reprod, and it's a dead zone. Not much on the ground except a few mushrooms. In the 70s the East hump had a good mix of evergreens and hardwoods, so even though it was older 2nd growth, it still supported a lot of animals. Until they start logging it again, there won't be much there.

Ain't that the truth.

If sunlight isn't getting through the trees it becomes a desert on the forest floor and that's what current logging practices in this state have created. Deserts. Only the greenest greenie Sierra Club member tries to argue with that.

[Humptulips]

Humptulips, you gotta admit a lot of it here on the Peninsula is habitat. In the 70's I used to hunt the East Hump and it was a great area before it got turned into an overgrown Douglas fir plantation. Fir plantations are fine if there are lots of clearcuts so there's some food for the herds, but you get into 15 yer old reprod, and it's a dead zone. Not much on the ground except a few mushrooms. In the 70s the East hump had a good mix of evergreens and hardwoods, so even though it was older 2nd growth, it still supported a lot of animals. Until they start logging it again, there won't be much there.

No, I don't have to admit it because like I said hogwash. Back when I started hunting in the late 60s the Promise Land was what you would call the worst habitat much like the E Fork is now, actually worse because there are still a few newer clearcuts on the E.Fork. Guess what, there were deer on the Promise Land.
Those few clearcuts on the E.Fork, if the deer were starving they would cluster in around them but no, the feed goes uneaten.
Used to be able to walk a road in that bad habitat and see it browsed the full length. Now the salmon berries never get pruned for the most part.
The Promise Land now is loaded with newer clearcuts but the deer few and far between. If it was just habitat it should be loaded.
 If you're raising beef you have to have grass for them to eat but you can't kill more then are born every year and expect your herd to flourish.
I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that predators can for want of a better term overbrowse their food supply.

[mountainman]

Humptulips, you gotta admit a lot of it here on the Peninsula is habitat. In the 70's I used to hunt the East Hump and it was a great area before it got turned into an overgrown Douglas fir plantation. Fir plantations are fine if there are lots of clearcuts so there's some food for the herds, but you get into 15 yer old reprod, and it's a dead zone. Not much on the ground except a few mushrooms. In the 70s the East hump had a good mix of evergreens and hardwoods, so even though it was older 2nd growth, it still supported a lot of animals. Until they start logging it again, there won't be much there.

No, I don't have to admit it because like I said hogwash. Back when I started hunting in the late 60s the Promise Land was what you would call the worst habitat much like the E Fork is now, actually worse because there are still a few newer clearcuts on the E.Fork. Guess what, there were deer on the Promise Land.
Those few clearcuts on the E.Fork, if the deer were starving they would cluster in around them but no, the feed goes uneaten.
Used to be able to walk a road in that bad habitat and see it browsed the full length. Now the salmon berries never get pruned for the most part.
The Promise Land now is loaded with newer clearcuts but the deer few and far between. If it was just habitat it should be loaded.
 If you're raising beef you have to have grass for them to eat but you can't kill more then are born every year and expect your herd to flourish.
I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that predators can for want of a better term overbrowse their food supply.

:yeah:well said

[Cougartail]

I was talking about the caps on compensation per ranch per year.

KF,
My comment was pointed more at Cougartails post.

There are no caps on compensation per year. Per claim, yes.
 I was referring to the topic of dog depredation..  being blamed as wolves..