Since Wolves

[turkeyfeather]

What I'm talking about is you're hedging on how much damage wolves have really done in Idaho. According to Wolfbait, it's almost total annihilation. Now you guys are trying to tell me why it really isn't so bad in Idaho.

The real reason it isn't so bad by the way is that wolves aren't that bad in the long run.They are not the cause of herd declines or gains. They are an indicator. They go up and down with prey populations. And there is usually a little lag time involved. They are just like prey animals in that they need food to survive. If they really wiped out prey populations, they'd be doing themselves in. Nature has checks and balances that prevent that. Only one species has a tendency to get around nature's checks and balances. And that is man.

I never said that. Your assuming. Don't put words in my mouth. But now that you mentioned it. Yes I do think wolves have put a signifigant dent in the population in Idaho.

[Cougartail]

I don't know if you're married or have kids sitka-blacktail,  but you'd have to pretty solid in your beliefs to send your kids out to the bus in the dark after hearing wolves out side.

In the past 100 years maybe 5 people have been killed in North America by wolves. In the past 10 years more than 250 people have been killed by domestic dogs in America. There has been over 40 million dog bites and over 450,000 requiring emergency room care also in the last 10 years in America.

...and your worried about wolves hurting your kids because you hear one howl.

Makes perfect sense to me...

It's amazing any children are left in Alaskan villages with such a threat looming!

 

[sirmissalot]

This thread is pretty comical really. Just tagging along here. Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... 

[mdbuck5x5]

 

This thread is pretty comical really.

I've read most of this thread and I'm just trying to get one thing straight. So on one side guys are saying there and too many wolves depleting our wildlife and we need to wipe them out and on the other side guys are saying theres not as many wolves as people are lead on to believe and they dont have that much of an affect on deer, elk, etc and that wild packs of dogs are more to blame? Am I right? Wrong? And for the record to me it seems like theres been some extremist remarks from both sides.

My  predators ie. cougars, bears, coyotes etc. have always had an affect on deer and elk and so on. But make no mistake about it, wolves are having a devastating affect on wildlife period! No matter their numbers or where they're at!

[Knocker of rocks]

But make no mistake about it, wolves are having a devastating affect on wildlife period! No matter their numbers or where they're at!

How does that work?

[mountainman]

Or wolves being blamed on dogs?

[mdbuck5x5]

But make no mistake about it, wolves are having a devastating affect on wildlife period! No matter their numbers or where they're at!

How does that work?

??

[AspenBud]

Or wolves being blamed on dogs?

That's actually not what was said, but feel free to keep lying.

[idahohuntr]

Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... 

Who said that?  I think everyone here agrees wolves can and do have impacts to ungulate populations.  The separation comes as some claim total destruction, while other folks believe somehow elk and deer will persist despite wolves and that there are many other factors, in some cases far more important, that have caused declines in ungulate populations. 

I just got back from a hunt in central Idaho, killed a bull opening morning, saw over 300 elk in 5 days hunting with my dad and not a hint of a wolf.  Tell me again about the complete destruction in Idaho?  I saw more elk in this unit than I have in 20 years. I'm either the best darn hunter on this forum (many people can easily refute this  ) or there is a lot of exxageration going on in regards to wolf impacts on elk in Idaho.  Some very specific areas have taken a toll, particularly where other habitat factors have come into play, but by and large Idaho is doing just fine with wolves.  Frankly, the guys I know that complain the most about wolves...they never killed elk before wolf reintroductions and they don't now either...they just have another excuse.  So if you are a poor hunter and want to cry wolf...go for it.  Me, I will be out with my rifle and bow continuing to hunt AND KILL elk regularly.   

[turkeyfeather]

Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... 

Who said that?  I think everyone here agrees wolves can and do have impacts to ungulate populations.  The separation comes as some claim total destruction, while other folks believe somehow elk and deer will persist despite wolves and that there are many other factors, in some cases far more important, that have caused declines in ungulate populations. 

I just got back from a hunt in central Idaho, killed a bull opening morning, saw over 300 elk in 5 days hunting with my dad and not a hint of a wolf.  Tell me again about the complete destruction in Idaho?  I saw more elk in this unit than I have in 20 years. I'm either the best darn hunter on this forum (many people can easily refute this  ) or there is a lot of exxageration going on in regards to wolf impacts on elk in Idaho.  Some very specific areas have taken a toll, particularly where other habitat factors have come into play, but by and large Idaho is doing just fine with wolves.  Frankly, the guys I know that complain the most about wolves...they never killed elk before wolf reintroductions and they don't now either...they just have another excuse.  So if you are a poor hunter and want to cry wolf...go for it.  Me, I will be out with my rifle and bow continuing to hunt AND KILL elk regularly.

One could say that the reason you saw so many elk was cause you didn't see any wolves.

[KFhunter]

Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... 

Who said that?  I think everyone here agrees wolves can and do have impacts to ungulate populations.  The separation comes as some claim total destruction, while other folks believe somehow elk and deer will persist despite wolves and that there are many other factors, in some cases far more important, that have caused declines in ungulate populations. 

I just got back from a hunt in central Idaho, killed a bull opening morning, saw over 300 elk in 5 days hunting with my dad and not a hint of a wolf.  Tell me again about the complete destruction in Idaho?  I saw more elk in this unit than I have in 20 years. I'm either the best darn hunter on this forum (many people can easily refute this  ) or there is a lot of exxageration going on in regards to wolf impacts on elk in Idaho.  Some very specific areas have taken a toll, particularly where other habitat factors have come into play, but by and large Idaho is doing just fine with wolves.  Frankly, the guys I know that complain the most about wolves...they never killed elk before wolf reintroductions and they don't now either...they just have another excuse.  So if you are a poor hunter and want to cry wolf...go for it.  Me, I will be out with my rifle and bow continuing to hunt AND KILL elk regularly.

One could say that the reason you saw so many elk was cause you didn't see any wolves.

That is exactly a point I've already brought up, and one of the reasons some hunters are seeing extraordinary numbers of Elk.



Wolves are like sheep herding dogs moving herds of Elk around like so many sheep, if your in the path hunting is wonderful! 
No get far back where the wolves are working and you'll find empty drainages where all those Elk you've been seeing would normally be.
If you spread out all those Elk across Idaho back into their ranges where they would have been prior to the wolves you'd see sparse numbers and tough hunting.

So idahohuntr you can thank the wolves for bringing the Elk right to you 

[KFhunter]

...and you can thank ID residents for SSS wolf training, the ID Governor for not prosecuting for SSS, and ID fish and game for not pursuing such.

they've effectively thumbed their noses at USFWS.

[Northway]

I think the argument about whether or not wolves, or other predators for that matter, reach an equilibrium with the ungulates in their surrounding area. I happen to believe that they do, but that's not the point. The important thing is that in a number of areas, a certain level of predation drives ungulate numbers lower to the point that hunter opportunity reaches a socially unacceptable level.

As someone who is more predator friendly than most people on this site, I believe that predator management is definitely not the only component, but an important component in maintaining hunter opportunity. There's just no way around it that I can see, at least in Washington State under the current circumstances.

Along with predator management however, there needs to be a strong focus on habitat improvement/preservation, identification & prosecution of poaching, and increased pressure on tribes to police their own members in problem areas.

The problem with supporting predator management is that some folks make predators the scapegoat for everything while ignoring the other important factors that also need to be considered.

[pianoman9701]

I think the argument about whether or not wolves, or other predators for that matter, reach an equilibrium with the ungulates in their surrounding area. I happen to believe that they do, but that's not the point. The important thing is that in a number of areas, a certain level of predation drives ungulate numbers lower to the point that hunter opportunity reaches a socially unacceptable level.

As someone who is more predator friendly than most people on this site, I believe that predator management is definitely not the only component, but an important component in maintaining hunter opportunity. There's just no way around it that I can see, at least in Washington State under the current circumstances.

Along with predator management however, there needs to be a strong focus on habitat improvement/preservation, identification & prosecution of poaching, and increased pressure on tribes to police their own members in problem areas.

The problem with supporting predator management is that some folks make predators the scapegoat for everything while ignoring the other important factors that also need to be considered.

Another problem is that some refuse to recognize man as one of the natural predators and hunting as a natural activity of that predator. Animal species and balances in nature change. Sometimes when there are two competing predators, the less effective of them is driven out or killed off. The wolf at one time roamed the entire country. Man showed up and they were killed off because of the competition for game and because of the danger they presented to man. They don't belong here anymore.

There are not many people in here, if any, who don't participate in conservation, which for the purposes of this discussion include habitat enhancement and improvement, and increased pressure on poaching and other illegal or detrimental activities which impact game. Some of us are more involved than others, but just by the very fact that someone buys their license and guns, they support conservation and habitat restoration.

[KFhunter]

This is the wolf forum,  it's not the feral dog section, the coyote section, the habitat section, rabid bunny section, bear section or conservation section - it's the wolf section.

humanure was banned because he constantly diverted the topic from wolf to other topics, continually derails the conversation.

 

Now he comes back under different user names but always uses the same tired trick.