Free: Contests & Raffles.
What I'm talking about is you're hedging on how much damage wolves have really done in Idaho. According to Wolfbait, it's almost total annihilation. Now you guys are trying to tell me why it really isn't so bad in Idaho. The real reason it isn't so bad by the way is that wolves aren't that bad in the long run.They are not the cause of herd declines or gains. They are an indicator. They go up and down with prey populations. And there is usually a little lag time involved. They are just like prey animals in that they need food to survive. If they really wiped out prey populations, they'd be doing themselves in. Nature has checks and balances that prevent that. Only one species has a tendency to get around nature's checks and balances. And that is man.
I don't know if you're married or have kids sitka-blacktail, but you'd have to pretty solid in your beliefs to send your kids out to the bus in the dark after hearing wolves out side.
This thread is pretty comical really.
But make no mistake about it, wolves are having a devastating affect on wildlife period! No matter their numbers or where they're at!
Quote from: mdbuck5x5 on October 18, 2013, 07:55:00 AM But make no mistake about it, wolves are having a devastating affect on wildlife period! No matter their numbers or where they're at!How does that work?
Or wolves being blamed on dogs?
Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations...
Quote from: sirmissalot on October 18, 2013, 07:38:22 AM Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... Who said that? I think everyone here agrees wolves can and do have impacts to ungulate populations. The separation comes as some claim total destruction, while other folks believe somehow elk and deer will persist despite wolves and that there are many other factors, in some cases far more important, that have caused declines in ungulate populations. I just got back from a hunt in central Idaho, killed a bull opening morning, saw over 300 elk in 5 days hunting with my dad and not a hint of a wolf. Tell me again about the complete destruction in Idaho? I saw more elk in this unit than I have in 20 years. I'm either the best darn hunter on this forum (many people can easily refute this ) or there is a lot of exxageration going on in regards to wolf impacts on elk in Idaho. Some very specific areas have taken a toll, particularly where other habitat factors have come into play, but by and large Idaho is doing just fine with wolves. Frankly, the guys I know that complain the most about wolves...they never killed elk before wolf reintroductions and they don't now either...they just have another excuse. So if you are a poor hunter and want to cry wolf...go for it. Me, I will be out with my rifle and bow continuing to hunt AND KILL elk regularly.
Quote from: idahohuntr on October 18, 2013, 09:24:44 AMQuote from: sirmissalot on October 18, 2013, 07:38:22 AM Wolves have no effect on ungulate populations... Who said that? I think everyone here agrees wolves can and do have impacts to ungulate populations. The separation comes as some claim total destruction, while other folks believe somehow elk and deer will persist despite wolves and that there are many other factors, in some cases far more important, that have caused declines in ungulate populations. I just got back from a hunt in central Idaho, killed a bull opening morning, saw over 300 elk in 5 days hunting with my dad and not a hint of a wolf. Tell me again about the complete destruction in Idaho? I saw more elk in this unit than I have in 20 years. I'm either the best darn hunter on this forum (many people can easily refute this ) or there is a lot of exxageration going on in regards to wolf impacts on elk in Idaho. Some very specific areas have taken a toll, particularly where other habitat factors have come into play, but by and large Idaho is doing just fine with wolves. Frankly, the guys I know that complain the most about wolves...they never killed elk before wolf reintroductions and they don't now either...they just have another excuse. So if you are a poor hunter and want to cry wolf...go for it. Me, I will be out with my rifle and bow continuing to hunt AND KILL elk regularly. One could say that the reason you saw so many elk was cause you didn't see any wolves.
I think the argument about whether or not wolves, or other predators for that matter, reach an equilibrium with the ungulates in their surrounding area. I happen to believe that they do, but that's not the point. The important thing is that in a number of areas, a certain level of predation drives ungulate numbers lower to the point that hunter opportunity reaches a socially unacceptable level. As someone who is more predator friendly than most people on this site, I believe that predator management is definitely not the only component, but an important component in maintaining hunter opportunity. There's just no way around it that I can see, at least in Washington State under the current circumstances. Along with predator management however, there needs to be a strong focus on habitat improvement/preservation, identification & prosecution of poaching, and increased pressure on tribes to police their own members in problem areas. The problem with supporting predator management is that some folks make predators the scapegoat for everything while ignoring the other important factors that also need to be considered.