Kind of neat

[jetjockey]

At a somewhat local level it does happen, Doc Favor runs his stubtails in the AF events,Hoke runs some too.Some years ago a snobby pointer owner Kate Stockwell Brown made a statement that was somewhat snotty about NFC Dunfers Where You Been and how her Miller pointer would make him look pretty bad when they got to the big hill.Guess what................ Ben was over the top while the pointer labored at the halfway up mark.I say let em run at ames too,you'll have a hard time getting by the current judging staff,  but they did put up a pointsetta last year,so if a half breed can win it anything is possible.

And the GSP's and the Britts both have national walking stakes too.

Oops.  I forgot, the GSP's have an AF Nationals and an AKC Nationals.  So hat makes 2 different AF Nationals.  Us the GSP's have An Amateur, Gun Dog, and All age Nationals.. 

Shorthairs fall into a weird zone with regards to the field trial world. Their original purpose and how they were originally envisioned to be handled was not the same as that of Pointers and setters. In some ways I wish they were let into more than they are (like Ames) just to stop the griping. Half of them are "droppers" of a sort anyhow   , competing with traditional pointing dogs shouldn't be a problem for them.

The problem is getting qualified to run at Ames.  That alone is tough enough. With only 70 qualifying stakes, the most that could get qualified would be 140.  He'll, even half way qualifying is a huge acomishment for most people.

The Only Brit walking National is the Amateur Gun Dog National.  All others are horseback, including the Open Gun Dog.  With that said, three dogs posted today in Booneville. One west coast dog

[wildweeds]

Oh Happy  No sugar coating with me,I look at every dog with the premise of whether or not I would breed a dog to it or get a dog from it.

[AspenBud]

but they did put up a pointsetta last year

Shadow Oak Bo? I thought that dog was all setter?

For that matter I didn't think AF allowed droppers anymore.

[wildweeds]

Think what you want,then start looking at pictures of dogs with Shadow in their name............ Add to the fact that theres a dam that came from almost out of nowhere.As to them not allowing crossbreeding,yeah they don't but it gets done,it's not hard to do,For instance HOF pointer Rockacre Blackhawk threw some shaggy pups and Strut is tricolored with a nice tan patch or two.Rockacre Buckwheat was a full blown pointsetta.It happens more than you think.There are a bunch of brittianys out there whose veins course the genetics of CH Alamance Little Rock,moneys money and when its as easy as a trip out behind a woodshed it happens,whether on purpose or accident.Lots of white shaggy dog blood in the gordon world.

but they did put up a pointsetta last year

Shadow Oak Bo? I thought that dog was all setter?

For that matter I didn't think AF allowed droppers anymore.

[AspenBud]

Think what you want,then start looking at pictures of dogs with Shadow in their name............ Add to the fact that theres a dam that came from almost out of nowhere.As to them not allowing crossbreeding,yeah they don't but it gets done,it's not hard to do,For instance HOF pointer Rockacre Blackhawk threw some shaggy pups and Strut is tricolored with a nice tan patch or two.Rockacre Buckwheat was a full blown pointsetta.It happens more than you think.

I'm not arguing the point, I just haven't heard that line of thinking much. When I looked at the dog I was struck by just how much he looks like a shaggy Pointer.

Regarding Strut, there may be some merit to that. But do hold in mind that tricolor is actually an accepted color scheme for English Pointers with the Kennel Club of England and the AKC does not explicitly say it can not occur. Now, how likely that would be to pop up in the field trial world where solid color Pointers do not exist let alone tricolors, well...

I don't know enough about Rockacre Buckwheat to have an opinion one way or another.

At the end of the day I think anything is possible in that world. Especially considering that droppers used to be registered with AF.

[jetjockey]

That's why DNA is required to run in most breed Nationals now days.  But that won't fix anything.  The people losing will always come up with some excuse as to why their dogs can't compete.  I've seen it first hand.  Watched a show person call out a Brit for being crossed with a setter because it was tall and nearly all white.  4 generations of DNA did nothing to shut them up.  Hell, I've had people tell me they think there's Pointer in my Brit based on pictures.  Shows that you can't judge anything from a picture.

[AspenBud]

That's why DNA is required to run in most breed Nationals now days.  But that won't fix anything.  The people losing will always come up with some excuse as to why their dogs can't compete.  I've seen it first hand.  Watched a show person call out a Brit for being crossed with a setter because it was tall and nearly all white.  4 generations of DNA did nothing to shut them up.  Hell, I've had people tell me they think there's Pointer in my Brit based on pictures.  Shows that you can't judge anything from a picture.

I agree, but how many generations back consecutively do you need to prove? It's not a big leap to think that a dog could come out of nowhere, have both its parents and itself pass, but three generations prior  have had a little Pointer dropped in. I've also heard it's hard to prove anything beyond the parents with DNA testing anyhow.

When I first saw pictures of the following dog I though it was a Pointer...

http://michigannstra.com/uploads/nstra_dogs/apollofornstra.jpg

But according to the DNA tests the dog is a German Shorthair as were the parents. I know orange is an acknowledged trait in shorthairs, it's just a disqualifying color in dog shows, and I know that Pointers were mixed in to make the breed but...

Anyhow, going back to setters and Pointers, given that crossing did used to occur in AF it shouldn't be surprising if genes from one breed or the other occasionally show up to this day. I'm ok with that.

[wildweeds]

DNA in doggies is only good enough to establish parentage,nothing more past sire or dam.It hasn't been but a little over ten years,but I used to see crossbred litters registered for puppy futuritys listed in the field.As to fooling the DNA,it's super easy.Give me a couple  generations and Ill give you a dog of any similar  body style traits/colors that reads/looks as advertised but sports 50% of another breeds genetics.There's a way to do it and it will work and match  everytime,If I could figure it out so can a bunch of other people.