Bowhunter chased up tree by wolves in GMU 121!

[AspenBud]

Why don't you go spend some time in heavily pressured areas with a season vs those without a season (both having large populations of animals).

I have and there is a difference. I can't hunt a day here without seeing bear scat and/or tracks. I could hunt in the Midwest and go without seeing any of either. But encounters still occurred.

My point however is you're always at risk, even in areas where predators are hunted.

[AspenBud]

So in areas where deer have never seen people or been hunted, they just run up and roll over looking for a belly rub?

The problem with your comment here is that you can never prove that deer wouldn't be afraid.

You're right. I've never had a deer come up looking for an actual belly rub.
But it could happen I suppose.
 

My point was that you could never prove what deer that hadn't had any interaction will do. Cause in order to find out you would have to interact with them. Also there is very little land in this country that hasn't been touched by man over the centuries. How many threads or comments  have their been just on this site that someone is complaining that they crawled into a deep dark hole in the middle of BFE and found trash.

This is a bit of a departure, but most Midwestern ruffed grouse hunters laugh when they see how trusting and downright dumb ruffed grouse are in places with less hunting pressure.

[wolfbait]

Why are the elk all there in town? The elk moved into town to avoid the predators. The wolves were more sensitive to human disturbance because the wolf packs actually go outside the park. And in Canada there’s no ESA (Endangered Species Act) protection, there’s no federal protection of them. They’re under provincial control; so they get shot, in some cases legally poisoned outside the park. The Canadian government still does that in rare cases when you have a lot of livestock depredation and stuff like that. So they wound up living inside the park, inside the town, which gave them all sorts of public safety problems and all sorts of things. Put Cliff White, retired as Parks Canada manager after 37 years with the organization, on it and he can talk about this for hours, all the stuff that went on in the Canadian Rockies. Today the elk population has declined by 80 or 90 percent and most of the animals left alive now live in the town year-round.

http://prfamerica.org/speeches/16th/WolfRecovery.html

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I don't know about elk wolfbait, but as for deer, they started showing up in town here when the city started enforcing leash laws. When I was a kid, dogs ran free and you rarely saw a deer in town. Now, you rarely see a dog running loose and deer are everywhere. And so are cougars. They are here because of the deer.  We've seen a lone cougar three times withing two blocks of my house including in my front yard and in the driveway next to my house.  And the last couple months there have been two cougars reportedly seen in the area three blocks from my house. Not to mention the bears being seen in town. Are you trying to tell me the cougars and bears are in town too because they have been chased here by wolves?

[wolfbait]

I don't know about elk wolfbait, but as for deer, they started showing up in town here when the city started enforcing leash laws. When I was a kid, dogs ran free and you rarely saw a deer in town. Now, you rarely see a dog running loose and deer are everywhere. And so are cougars. They are here because of the deer.  We've seen a lone cougar three times withing two blocks of my house including in my front yard and in the driveway next to my house.  And the last couple months there have been two cougars reportedly seen in the area three blocks from my house. Not to mention the bears being seen in town. Are you trying to tell me the cougars and bears are in town too because they have been chased here by wolves?

Sounds to me like you have a predator problem, predators will follow their prey. When cougars/bears were hunted with hounds those problems were few, now it is and every winter problem, and sometimes a summer problem. Controlling predators instead of protecting them would lessen the pressure on the game herds, and they wouldn't have to hang out in town and around peoples homes for protection. 

Biologists etc. like to stress that more habitat would solve the problem of game herds in town and residential areas, but the truth is there is not enough predator control. In actuality there is getting to be fewer and fewer elk, deer, moose etc. because of uncontrolled predators, and like where you live deer feel safer around people then out in the brush with cougars, bears, and wolves.

With less predator control, the end results will be more predator/human conflict, which is where we are today.

[bearpaw]

   very well stated wolfbait 

[turkeyfeather]

I don't know about elk wolfbait, but as for deer, they started showing up in town here when the city started enforcing leash laws. When I was a kid, dogs ran free and you rarely saw a deer in town. Now, you rarely see a dog running loose and deer are everywhere. And so are cougars. They are here because of the deer.  We've seen a lone cougar three times withing two blocks of my house including in my front yard and in the driveway next to my house.  And the last couple months there have been two cougars reportedly seen in the area three blocks from my house. Not to mention the bears being seen in town. Are you trying to tell me the cougars and bears are in town too because they have been chased here by wolves?

Sounds to me like you have a predator problem, predators will follow their prey. When cougars/bears were hunted with hounds those problems were few, now it is and every winter problem, and sometimes a summer problem. Controlling predators instead of protecting them would lessen the pressure on the game herds, and they wouldn't have to hang out in town and around peoples homes for protection. 

Biologists etc. like to stress that more habitat would solve the problem of game herds in town and residential areas, but the truth is there is not enough predator control. In actuality there is getting to be fewer and fewer elk, deer, moose etc. because of uncontrolled predators, and like where you live deer feel safer around people then out in the brush with cougars, bears, and wolves.

With less predator control, the end results will be more predator/human conflict, which is where we are today.

Way to much logic in this. Sitka's not gonna understand.

[buckfvr]

Ya.....nothing like arguing for the sake of an argument...........Im sure theres a syndrome hes afflicted with.   

[AspenBud]

I don't know about elk wolfbait, but as for deer, they started showing up in town here when the city started enforcing leash laws. When I was a kid, dogs ran free and you rarely saw a deer in town. Now, you rarely see a dog running loose and deer are everywhere. And so are cougars. They are here because of the deer.  We've seen a lone cougar three times withing two blocks of my house including in my front yard and in the driveway next to my house.  And the last couple months there have been two cougars reportedly seen in the area three blocks from my house. Not to mention the bears being seen in town. Are you trying to tell me the cougars and bears are in town too because they have been chased here by wolves?

Sounds to me like you have a predator problem, predators will follow their prey. When cougars/bears were hunted with hounds those problems were few, now it is and every winter problem, and sometimes a summer problem. Controlling predators instead of protecting them would lessen the pressure on the game herds, and they wouldn't have to hang out in town and around peoples homes for protection. 

Biologists etc. like to stress that more habitat would solve the problem of game herds in town and residential areas, but the truth is there is not enough predator control. In actuality there is getting to be fewer and fewer elk, deer, moose etc. because of uncontrolled predators, and like where you live deer feel safer around people then out in the brush with cougars, bears, and wolves.

With less predator control, the end results will be more predator/human conflict, which is where we are today.

Actually the justification for killing 6000 wolves in Alberta is an increase in deer numbers which are the result of good habitat created as a byproduct of the energy boom up there. More deer means more wolves which is bad news for caribou. You can not discount it.

[pianoman9701]

According to this article Aspenbud, you're off. The increase in deer population is due to habitat changes created by the oil boom. The caribou are being killed off by the wolves.

"Alberta’s tar sand pits create deer, wolves and decimate mountain caribou
by RALPH MAUGHAN on APRIL 12, 2012 · 6 COMMENTS · in ENERGY, OIL AND GAS, POLITICS, THREATS, WOLVES
Oh, the many effects of extracting the world’s dirtiest oil!
Despite the huge PR offensive by big oil, Alberta, and Canada’s right wing government, it is hard to overwhelm the public into thinking digging big holes to get out the bitumen is a great idea. Scientists, bloggers, conservation groups, and even segments of the Democratic Party keep pointing out how it hurts.

An example this morning of a common blog attack is Cry Wolf: An Unethical Oil Story. DeSmogBlog. Carol Linnitt.

The facts are basically these. Note that this does not follow the exact  same logic as “Cry Wolf” above.  Alberta has already killed 500 wolves using poison bait and the entire array of methods that conservationist hate.  This includes strychnine which kills all the scavengers too. The planned wolf cull is to kill 6000 wolves over the next 5 years. Why? All the industrial activity in the northern forest creates deer habitat.  A big increase in deer, creates more wolves to eat them.  Mountain caribou are also edible, but usually not bothered much by wolves due to their rarity.  However, the larger wolf population means more caribou get eaten as what we might call “by-catch,” to use a fishing example.  Mountain caribou can’t stand this pressure even though the absolute number of caribou killed is small.  So the big wolf killing program is the government-dirty oil complex’s effort to save the caribou."

"A big increase in deer, creates more wolves to eat them." Not the other way around.

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/04/12/albertas-tar-sand-pits-create-deer-wolves-and-decimate-mountain-caribou/

[JLS]

According to this article Aspenbud, you're off. The increase in deer population is due to habitat changes created by the oil boom. The caribou are being killed off by the wolves.

"Alberta’s tar sand pits create deer, wolves and decimate mountain caribou
by RALPH MAUGHAN on APRIL 12, 2012 · 6 COMMENTS · in ENERGY, OIL AND GAS, POLITICS, THREATS, WOLVES
Oh, the many effects of extracting the world’s dirtiest oil!
Despite the huge PR offensive by big oil, Alberta, and Canada’s right wing government, it is hard to overwhelm the public into thinking digging big holes to get out the bitumen is a great idea. Scientists, bloggers, conservation groups, and even segments of the Democratic Party keep pointing out how it hurts.

An example this morning of a common blog attack is Cry Wolf: An Unethical Oil Story. DeSmogBlog. Carol Linnitt.

The facts are basically these. Note that this does not follow the exact  same logic as “Cry Wolf” above.  Alberta has already killed 500 wolves using poison bait and the entire array of methods that conservationist hate.  This includes strychnine which kills all the scavengers too. The planned wolf cull is to kill 6000 wolves over the next 5 years. Why? All the industrial activity in the northern forest creates deer habitat.  A big increase in deer, creates more wolves to eat them.  Mountain caribou are also edible, but usually not bothered much by wolves due to their rarity.  However, the larger wolf population means more caribou get eaten as what we might call “by-catch,” to use a fishing example.  Mountain caribou can’t stand this pressure even though the absolute number of caribou killed is small.  So the big wolf killing program is the government-dirty oil complex’s effort to save the caribou."

"A big increase in deer, creates more wolves to eat them." Not the other way around.

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/04/12/albertas-tar-sand-pits-create-deer-wolves-and-decimate-mountain-caribou/

And then this article references changes to that dirty "H" word again.

http://www.albertacariboucommittee.ca/PDF/Changes-in-landscape.pdf

[pianoman9701]

And neither article says that more wolves mean more deer.

[JLS]

Actually the justification for killing 6000 wolves in Alberta is an increase in deer numbers which are the result of good habitat created as a byproduct of the energy boom up there. More deer means more wolves which is bad news for caribou. You can not discount it.

Piano,

Who ever said more wolves = more deer?

[pianoman9701]

Actually the justification for killing 6000 wolves in Alberta is an increase in deer numbers which are the result of good habitat created as a byproduct of the energy boom up there. More deer means more wolves which is bad news for caribou. You can not discount it.

Piano,

Who ever said more wolves = more deer?

I Misread Aspen's post. I thought he had written "more wolves=more deer". Sorry.

[JLS]

Actually the justification for killing 6000 wolves in Alberta is an increase in deer numbers which are the result of good habitat created as a byproduct of the energy boom up there. More deer means more wolves which is bad news for caribou. You can not discount it.

Piano,

Who ever said more wolves = more deer?

I Misread Aspen's post. I thought he had written "more wolves=more deer". Sorry.

I haven't read the entire article that I referenced, but it is interesting how the altered habitat heavily favored deer, which in turn flourished despite wolves being present.

Read it and draw your own conclusions.