Male or Female, shoot or don't shoot?

[stromdiddily]

Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?

Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken so there is little chance of any population being endangered.

My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.

Awesome, thanks for the reply 

[boneaddict]

Unlike bear I find it a lot harder to sex a cat unless I lift the tail, especially one that isn't super mature. 

Back in the day I think they didn't shoot the females as they are the ones that had babies.   The more cats there were the more sport they had with pursuit.   That is counter productive with a majority of folks, unless they also hounded, as they kill and eat so much of our normal game.   Basically in direct competition with.   

[Curly]

I'd shoot if my guide told me to.  Then I'd find out after it was dead if it was a Tom. 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?

Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken and many states have annual harvest quotas so there is little chance of any population being endangered.

My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.

I was going to ask the same question. After seeing your answer, I have to ask......

You're more interested in trophies than taking out more deer and elk killers? If you got a big clientele of wolf hunters added to your other hunts, would you only hunt trophy alpha male wolves then? Since you don't seem to be all that interested in taking female cougars which could lead to a drop in cougar populations, do the wolves get the blame for the deer and elk that the artificially high number of cats take? Think of all the extra deer and elk those cats take that could be translated into deer and elk hunters for Idaho and all the money that comes with them. Surely more hunters are interested in taking deer and elk than a cougar. Not many hunters have much use for killing more than one cougar except as a way to reduce their presence.

I'm so confuddled.

[Old Man Yager]

I'd shoot it, it's a deer and elk killer no matter male or female

[bearpaw]

Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?

Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken and many states have annual harvest quotas so there is little chance of any population being endangered.

My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.

I was going to ask the same question. After seeing your answer, I have to ask......

You're more interested in trophies than taking out more deer and elk killers? If you got a big clientele of wolf hunters added to your other hunts, would you only hunt trophy alpha male wolves then? Since you don't seem to be all that interested in taking female cougars which could lead to a drop in cougar populations, do the wolves get the blame for the deer and elk that the artificially high number of cats take? Think of all the extra deer and elk those cats take that could be translated into deer and elk hunters for Idaho and all the money that comes with them. Surely more hunters are interested in taking deer and elk than a cougar. Not many hunters have much use for killing more than one cougar except as a way to reduce their presence.

I'm so confuddled.

Nice try blacktail!

When we hunted cats in Washington we hunted whatever the hunter wanted, the population needed and still needs thinning. I've helped hunters kill hundreds of cougars of both sexes over the last 37 years.

During my first 10 years in Idaho we had what seemed to be over abundant cougar numbers, again I allowed hunters to shoot what they wanted, even though most would prefer taking a tom.

During the last several years Idaho has hunted cats and bear pretty hard to compensate for wolf impacts and has successfully reduced the populations to a more acceptable levels in most areas. Currently it does not seem that shooting females is needed much and by switching to tom only hunts I seem to be attracting more cougar hunting interest. But if the cougar population in my area seems to get too robust I would advocate taking more females. Currently there is a quota of 22 females in my area which gets filled most years by other hunters.

I am licensed to guide for wolves and think every wolf seen should be shot. When IDFG gets the number under 200 then we need to reduce the harvest so that we do not endanger relisting. Otherwise I would say keep on shooting, we don't need any wolves, hunters can manage big game herds, wolves are just something the wolf lovers think they need in the lower 48. Wolves should certainly at least be confined to the wilderness areas, such as how WY is managing wolves.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I wouldn't shoot it until I could tell it was a tom...even then it is HIGHLY unlikely I would shoot it.  I like chasing cats more than killing them. 

I don't advocate killing females unless there is some compelling reason to do so. 

[bearpaw]

There are several ways to estimate the cougar's sex, but the most reliable way is to look for the dark spot on the genitals. Sometimes it's tough to see that area depending on how the cat is sitting in the tree or on rocks.

[KFhunter]

It was hard but I put myself in Idaho and using a paid guide,....


male - pass


Now, back in WA....that sucker would be dead.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Sometimes it is really tough to tell and you have to get the cat moving to get a look.  I do not trust the folks that think they can judge by the head alone...

[KFhunter]

We're suppost to guess at it,  I'm not speaking with authority or trying to convince anyone else it's a male or female.


I'm guessing it's a decent young male, but not a trophy class Tom where I'd pay a fist full of cash to take it.



If I were in WA and found that sucker up in a tree I'd shoot it then figure out it's gender when it's on the ground

[snowpack]

I'd shoot it.  They are tough to come by on foot, even though there are so many out there.  If I thought their population was below what I consider ideal I'd only go for toms.  But seeing how many are prowling around right now, I'd think I would rather target the females to help get the deer back in check.

[idaho guy]

I think it is a female but like bearpaw only accurate way i have found to truly sex is the black spot. I hound hunt in north idaho and we have no qoutas on lions male or female at all. As a result we dont have a large cougar population so I try and let all females go. I have taken females when they were close to town and probably going to get in someones backyard or would be easy for another hounder to tree and kill close to a main road. Lion populations seem to me to be easy to knock way down in a hurry when you got a bunch of guys killing everything they tree. We have a lot of guys here doing just that and when you snowmobile miles upon miles and dont cut a track you would understand letting some females and young ones go for another day.  Lions are nothing like wolves when it comes to decimating deer and elk. 90 percent of the lion kills i find are deer and I could be wrong but based on everything i have seen i dont think they kill a bunch of elk. We had great elk and deer numbers BEFORE the wolves showed up. After the wolves the numbers are down and way down in some areas. I wish more people let females go when you dont have a huge population. We had a bunch of cats in the 90s and the deer and elk hunting was phenomanal so I dont think lions are the problem. wolves another story kill every one you possibly can!           

[idaho guy]

and also bearpaw are you going to give everyone the right answer

[bearpaw]

and also bearpaw are you going to give everyone the right answer

yes I eventually will...