Crossbows

[popeshawnpaul]

This topic has come up lately.  Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows.  WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".  Additionally, at the last GMAC we discussed disabled eligibility to use a crossbow during archery season.  With over 1000 disabled now allowed to hunt during archery season, do you think this needs to be looked at?  One thought is no, because the reported statistical success rate with a crossbow is similar to that of standard archery equipment.  I'd enjoy any thoughts you might have.

[4fletch]

Hi Pope. Scope or no scope , I think that if the disabled has a eye problem where one cannot use pin sights a non magnified optic would be justified. I am not for a magnified optics although

[lokidog]

Crossbows should be allowed for disabled (can't pull a bow or hold it back) archery hunters during archery season, or during modern rifle seasons.  Not sure they should be allowed for vision issues during archery season though, allow other optics on a bow instead if you have the ability to draw and hold one.

I don't see a need to restrict magnification on a scope for a crossbpow within these parameters.   

[Snapshot]

New York Bowhunters, Inc did it right regards to the crossbow...only the most severely, permanently disabled may qualify to use that weapon during archery season. Others can get a Modified Longbow Authorization that allows them to use the types of modified archery equipment that WSB fought hard to have legalized in Washington in the early part of the century.

http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html

[buckfvr]

What about old and cant draw/hold back and see very well ?  I think xbows are fine during modern season, same as modern muzzle loaders.....either can have a scope during modern.

We cant do everything for everyone........I have a neighbor who hunts elk with an xbow, and deer with a 300win mag.........sound right to you ??

There comes a time when the body wont function as we like, and it should be accepted........not compensated for with rules and regulations.  WHen I can no longer draw and hold, I am done.....if I cant see my pins, I am done.....if I can no longer see through a rifle scope and rest that rifle on something to shoot, I am done.............unless ofcourse you guys want to accomodate me with rules and regulations that address old and tired and cant see..............

[popeshawnpaul]

New York Bowhunters, Inc did it right regards to the crossbow...only the most severely, permanently disabled may qualify to use that weapon during archery season. Others can get a Modified Longbow Authorization that allows them to use the types of modified archery equipment that WSB fought hard to have legalized in Washington in the early part of the century.

http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html

We can use as many adjectives as we want such as "severely" and "permanently" but the language is similar to our state.  It's not hard to get a doctor to say what is required in New York or WA state.  There has to be some middle ground between Buckfvr's point of view and our current state.  I do believe that many of our disabled hunters can pull a minimum draw weight bow at about 40 lbs.  One should do all they can do to try and be legal with a bow first.

[4fletch]

I agree with most of what has been brought up. Except I feel for our wounded warriors who are missing parts of their body and want to hunt in the archery season they should be allowed to hunt with crossbows

[buckfvr]

This is where you come in Shawn, thanks for taking the time to help address these issues.

I do agree with the part concerning our wounded warriors.......its the " pretend to be disabled " that riles me.  I see a lot of dishonesty amongst the supposed to be disabled.  We have to take care of those that need this program but need to weed out the turds.

[RadSav]

We ran into guys last late season pounding the brush pretty dang hard with their crossbows.  And in country I avoid on days I'm feeling sore and tired.  If you can hunt that country that way carrying a bulky and heavy crossbow I'm not sure I would consider you "ambulatory".  And if you can cock a crossbow by yourself I expect you can probably draw a 50# compound.  A few days later we saw these same guys cutting, splitting and stacking large rounds of firewood at camp.  I'm still trying to figure out how they met the states definition of disabled

I am fine with truly disabled hunters using crossbows during archery season.  Crossbows aren't more accurate and are not better long range tools.  They are just easier to shoot and do not require the level of practice to become efficient.  Don't even care if they are using scopes on them as that is imo balancing out their limitations to my own. 

I do have a problem with guys driving around with loaded and cocked crossbows mounted to the hood of their vehicle.  I see a few guys doing this in the Winston during late season.  If they were dangers to just themselves I'd say who cares about idiots weeding themselves out of the gene pool.  But some innocent bystander is probably going to be the one injured in this case.  And all archers are going to take the hit when that story hits the news.

Scopes on crossbows during modern firearm season...what's the problem?

[bobcat]

I really think if anything, crossbows should at least be allowed during modern firearm season, ANYWHERE, not just firearm restricted areas. That makes absolutely no sense.

[Jonathan_S]

I would 100% support giving special privilege to wounded warriors.  That being said they are a tiny demographic of  persons wanting to bowhunt with a disability permit so I'd be careful about making rules based on wanting to do something for our honorable service members because there would be thousands of leeches waiting to benefit.

It's amazing how many "disabled" people hunting alone for deer/elk can't handle a bow or a 3 mile hike but can handle an elk or deer once it's down   

I watched a "disabled" hunter cap a doe with a Glock out his window on a county road and then throw it in his canopied truck bed.  I confronted him but got told to "eff off, I'm disabled..."  Well he did have the orange sticker   

Shortly thereafter he had blue and red lights in his rearview     thank God for cellphones   

Anyway, back on topic 

[SquirrelHunter]

I have to chime in on this as I hunt with a crossbow.  Giving our wounded warriors access to use a crossbow is a great idea, but where do you draw the line on what wounded is, is it missing an arm/hand?  If it isn't taken to the extreme of missing an extremity how do you prove the "wounded"?  I know many of service members that play the disability system in both the Army side and the VA side.  Now as far as your everyday person using a crossbow, why not?  I had a C-spine surgery and fusion that didn't work out, that along with a shoulder injury allows me to pull a 40lb draw bow back but not hold it for more than 3-5 seconds before my shoulder gives out sending the arrow who knows where, and sending the bow back towards my face (yes it happened during a hunt).  So why shouldn't I be allowed to use a crossbow to continue my hunting experience?

I feel like people see the "disabled hunter" using the crossbow and are upset because they feel we have a "greater advantage" over the traditional archery user by adding distance or accuracy.  Hunt the method you enjoy, or the method that you can physically handle, enjoy your hunt and let others enjoy theirs whether you agree with the method or not.   

[Jonathan_S]

Hunt the method you enjoy, or the method that you can physically handle, enjoy your hunt and let others enjoy theirs whether you agree with the method or not.   

Ordinarily I would totally agree with this sentiment.  However the reason this is a sticking point in this case is because scoped crossbows are a a major leap in technology (and ease of use ) that would translate to shorter archery seasons and less opportunity for everyone.

So if my method of hunting is to hunt everyday in September, I can't very well support the use of crossbows can I?

I think crossbows should really only be allowed for use in modern firearm seasons...not just in firearm restricted areas though.   

[SquirrelHunter]

As far as magnified scoped crossbows are concerned I am not really for that, but something like a holographic sight or non-magnified red dot I am all for.  I feel that instead of limiting the use of accessories on the crossbow or the crossbow themselves the state should look at making it harder to obtain a permit for these items.  Ive got the medical records to back up the need for one, but when the dr filed out his portion on my application he wrote 2-3 lines and that was it, 2 weeks later I had the permit in the mail. 
WDFW even called to make sure I didn't want the authorization to use a scope before they sent me my permit, and we didnt even check the box or offer up any documentation of bad eyesight.  So I really believe one of the biggest issues here is the monitoring of the issuing of permits.

[Snapshot]

I really think if anything, crossbows should at least be allowed during modern firearm season, ANYWHERE, not just firearm restricted areas. That makes absolutely no sense.

I agree...and that would take care of the scope issue once and for all.