The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”

[Eli346]

 What really bothers me is the waste of money that these frivolous lawsuits brought upon the US government by the so-called 'enviro' groups are causing. Doesn't the government realize that the funding for the lawsuits themselves usually comes from government grants? The US government is paying to have themselves sued and then spending money to defend it! Idiotic at best but the 'enviro' groups keep making a living suing us honest taxpayers.

[bobcat]

It's not a "scam." That's all I will say. Some of you need your tin foil hats.   

[Northway]

The ESA in general was a good idea. I think one of the big reasons that more endangered species haven't benefited is because so much of the funding is steered towards a few species, as opposed to being more widely distributed.

Where things go awry is when some groups challenge obscure, technical aspects of the act to get their way, which was the case when a few groups challenged the wolf delisting in Wyoming. Another concern is that there is just not enough funding or manpower to go around to take care of all the species that might warrant listing. Tough decisions have to be made. 

The threat of ESA listing can also be a good motivator. States are scrambling to come up with a solution for declining sage grouse populations in an effort to stave off the ESA.

The impression that I get from some politicians is that financial interests should always trump the ESA, no matter what. At that point, it would be a waste of time to even look after threatened species because there are not many scenarios where someone isn't affected in some way financially.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Again, your words are rhetoric only. Licensed hunters have never caused the extinction of any animal in the US.

Weasle words....... Because before modern management took over hunters didn't buy a license to hunt.  The list of animals hunted to extinction before the advent of hunting licenses include the Passenger Pigeon, and the Stellar Sea Cow. Other animals hunted to extinction in various locals would include the Eastern Elk, the Eastern Woodland Bison, Californian Golden Bear, even the Yakima elk herd. And these are just a few examples from North America. There is more all over the world. Not to mention species hunted to the brink of extinction.

So to imply in any way that hunters haven't, or couldn't,  or wouldn't wipe out animals is dishonest at best. There wouldn't be anything to hunt if our recent ancestors hadn't taken the bull by the horns and made strict laws regarding recovery and then hunting.

[wolfbait]

Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

[JLS]

Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.

[wolfbait]

Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.

It's clear that you do: First off you pretend that you don't care when as we have all seen you do, and second you don't even know me, but yet you comment on my IQ. So where do you go from their?

[wolfbait]

I lease a ranch in Utah that has been part of a sage grouse study for about 5 years. The ranch owners invited the University and UDWR to do the study and we quit hunting sage grouse while they study them.

Yep, it obvious ranchers and hunters hate sage grouse and only are concerned about the bottom line. 

I would have no problem with the ESA if it was used to bring back species which are in danger rather than a tool for enviro groups to stop activities they don't endorse.

When predator birds were controlled, other birds such as the sage grouse etc. were plentiful> With ESA and protecting predators it has reversed everything> If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!

[idahohuntr]

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

Yes, your post triggered a secret alarm in the nuthouse and several of us were deployed immediately to go into damage control so that we could prevent you from exposing all of our lies.  Alas, we have failed and will probably be called back to the mothership any hour now.

That, or some independent folks have different perspectives on a controversial topic posted to an internet forum...lets go with your theory though...sometimes reality is boring. 

[idahohuntr]

If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!

Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.    

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.

[wolfbait]

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

Yes, your post triggered a secret alarm in the nuthouse and several of us were deployed immediately to go into damage control so that we could prevent you from exposing all of our lies.  Alas, we have failed and will probably be called back to the mothership any hour now.

That, or some independent folks have different perspectives on a controversial topic posted to an internet forum...lets go with your theory though...sometimes reality is boring. 

I'm surprised you wasted so much time with your blabber, I bet you are proud of your self, hope you didn't burn a finger.

[wolfbait]

If the predators were controlled then there would be no need for the the ESA. And WDW&wolves would be WDGF!

Yes, we all know that predation is the only cause of decline in a species.    

I think JLS was being generous in estimating your IQ.

I'm sure you do!

[luvtohnt]

I believe there has been a recent change in legislation. The government got smart and saw that the lawsuits were draining all the funding mechanisms, further reducing the amount of work that could be done. The legislation states that any party that is going to sue the federal government must show that they have the funds to finance the lawsuit if they loose. Hopefully this will prevent roughly 30% of the lawsuits so that the USFWS can actually accomplish something good (other than write defense papers). I will see what I can find as far as info on the new law.

The Endangered Species Act was a very thoughtful piece of legislation, however like any legislation that was produced in the 70's, it should be updated to mesh with modern technology and a vastly more modern world.

Brandon

[JLS]

Jamie Rappaport Clark, when she became a political appointee as Director of Fish and Wildlife Services. She was in that job to evaluate the deployment of money from the federal aid program to bring the wolves in. Even though she didn’t receive the money from Congress because it had been turned down, she in turn is the one who set up “ Defenders of Wildlife” as the organization that would investigate predation and pay for damages. And then when she lost her job when President Clinton went out of office, she went to the National Wildlife Federation at a salary of $200,000 – $250,000/yr where she did very little before getting fired. She did score a nice severance with bonus. A couple of months later, she pops up in the Defenders of Wildlife as a top official with them where she is today. So it is all interwoven. Clark would not be where she is now; if the wolf had been delisted years ago and we were controlling them and managing them. Her stake was not in achieving efficiency but rather from how organizations could benefit and make money. - See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/03/10/panel-roundtable-canadian-gray-wolf-introduction-into-yellowstone/#sthash.FAkDYDWZ.dpuf

Until I posted this the agenda driven pro-wolf crowd seemed to have No Comment, I guess when one of their own is high-lighted they leap to their feet to defend>I guess when you hit the target they have a response.

My question is: Did CNW or WDFW kick the agenda driven pro-wolf people in the arse for a response, or did they leap to their feet all by themselves???

If you honestly think I care one bit about her then your IQ must fall somewhere on the left side of zero on a number line.

It's clear that you do: First off you pretend that you don't care when as we have all seen you do, and second you don't even know me, but yet you comment on my IQ. So where do you go from their?

You show me one single quote of mine where I have voiced my support for Jamie Clark.  Not hating wolves  and not buying into the end of hunting conspiracy theory does not equate to supporting her or her agenda.

Where I go from here is to ignore your ridiculous accusations and jabs.

[pianoman9701]

Again, your words are rhetoric only. Licensed hunters have never caused the extinction of any animal in the US.

Weasle words....... Because before modern management took over hunters didn't buy a license to hunt.  The list of animals hunted to extinction before the advent of hunting licenses include the Passenger Pigeon, and the Stellar Sea Cow. Other animals hunted to extinction in various locals would include the Eastern Elk, the Eastern Woodland Bison, Californian Golden Bear, even the Yakima elk herd. And these are just a few examples from North America. There is more all over the world. Not to mention species hunted to the brink of extinction.

So to imply in any way that hunters haven't, or couldn't,  or wouldn't wipe out animals is dishonest at best. There wouldn't be anything to hunt if our recent ancestors hadn't taken the bull by the horns and made strict laws regarding recovery and then hunting.

It's not weasel words and it's not an implication. It's fact. Licensed hunters in the US don't make animals go extinct, period. What happened up to 1900 is not my responsibility. I'm an active participant of conservation. The animals you listed where killed by market shooters and the shooters in many cases were supported or hired by our own government. And, licensed hunters pay more money and put more volunteer hours into helping keep wildlife abundant than all other groups combined. Animals hunted to extinction all over the world have not done so as a result of licensed hunters. Sorry you don't know your facts but there they are.