Legal question

[grundy53]

Yes I still thinks its a stupid law that I could be cited for if I killed an invasive species (called so by the very state that would cite me) but I'm not so old I can't learn a new trick. So I just pick it up and dump it in the trash, apparently that's enough. Whatever, it's not the first time I've played the games until things changed.

Yes, it's an extremely stupid law. Even more stupid is the fact that the WDFW might actually enforce it, when it's an invasive species that the state would like to get rid of.   

Now I have always tried to support the WDFW but with stuff like this, it's not so easy anymore. This is just ridiculous. It's beyond stupid

Completely agree. Help us get rid of this invasive species.... but we will fine you if you let it go to waste....

sent from my typewriter

[bigtex]

Yes I still thinks its a stupid law that I could be cited for if I killed an invasive species (called so by the very state that would cite me) but I'm not so old I can't learn a new trick. So I just pick it up and dump it in the trash, apparently that's enough. Whatever, it's not the first time I've played the games until things changed.

Now I have always tried to support the WDFW but with stuff like this, it's not so easy anymore. This is just ridiculous. It's beyond stupid

Like someone else said, don't move to Alaska then 

But in reality, if WDFW asked the legislature to change "wildlife" to "game animal" to align it with the wording the pamphlet nobody would probably notice, because most hunters probably think that's the current law. However, such move would take legislative action. I wouldn't want to be the WDFW LE representative sitting in front of the House or Senate Natural Resource committee being asked why under current law it's illegal to waste any animal, but under a proposed bill it would be ok to waste anything else other than game animals. Think the PETA, bunny hugger type would be all over that?

[grundy53]

I hope all those carp shooters collect and eat all of their carp...

sent from my typewriter

[grundy53]

Better not dump anymore salt on slugs....

sent from my typewriter

[bobcat]

Yes I still thinks its a stupid law that I could be cited for if I killed an invasive species (called so by the very state that would cite me) but I'm not so old I can't learn a new trick. So I just pick it up and dump it in the trash, apparently that's enough. Whatever, it's not the first time I've played the games until things changed.

Now I have always tried to support the WDFW but with stuff like this, it's not so easy anymore. This is just ridiculous. It's beyond stupid

Like someone else said, don't move to Alaska then 

But in reality, if WDFW asked the legislature to change "wildlife" to "game animal" to align it with the wording the pamphlet nobody would probably notice, because most hunters probably think that's the current law. However, such move would take legislative action. I wouldn't want to be the WDFW LE representative sitting in front of the House or Senate Natural Resource committee being asked why under current law it's illegal to waste any animal, but under a proposed bill it would be ok to waste anything else other than game animals. Think the PETA, bunny hugger type would be all over that?

I understand how it would look. That makes complete sense. Some things are better left unsaid. Sure. So then with it being simply a stupid technicality, even though the intent of the law was never meant to say that a person had to eat coyotes or nutria, or be cited with waste, why enforce the law? That's the issue. There is supposed to be such a thing as officer discretion. That's why we hopefully have "game wardens" who are pro-hunting. But if certain "game wardens" are citing people for wasting a coyote or a nutria, then to me these individuals must be anti-hunting. And that's a terrible thing to have any kind of an anti-hunting sentiment within the enforcement division of the WDFW.

[bobcat]

Better not dump anymore salt on slugs....

sent from my typewriter

 

True statment.

[bigtex]

Yes I still thinks its a stupid law that I could be cited for if I killed an invasive species (called so by the very state that would cite me) but I'm not so old I can't learn a new trick. So I just pick it up and dump it in the trash, apparently that's enough. Whatever, it's not the first time I've played the games until things changed.

Now I have always tried to support the WDFW but with stuff like this, it's not so easy anymore. This is just ridiculous. It's beyond stupid

Like someone else said, don't move to Alaska then 

But in reality, if WDFW asked the legislature to change "wildlife" to "game animal" to align it with the wording the pamphlet nobody would probably notice, because most hunters probably think that's the current law. However, such move would take legislative action. I wouldn't want to be the WDFW LE representative sitting in front of the House or Senate Natural Resource committee being asked why under current law it's illegal to waste any animal, but under a proposed bill it would be ok to waste anything else other than game animals. Think the PETA, bunny hugger type would be all over that?

I understand how it would look. That makes complete sense. Some things are better left unsaid. Sure. So then with it being simply a stupid technicality, even though the intent of the law was never meant to say that a person had to eat coyotes or nutria, or be cited with waste, why enforce the law? That's the issue. There is supposed to be such a thing as officer discretion. That's why we hopefully have "game wardens" who are pro-hunting. But if certain "game wardens" are citing people for wasting a coyote or a nutria, then to me these individuals must be anti-hunting. And that's a terrible thing to have any kind of an anti-hunting sentiment within the enforcement division of the WDFW.

Curly brought up the WDFW LE Chief telling his officers to not cite for a certain offense. One of the top things an LE administrator knows is not tell his officers to not enforce a law, why? Because at some point someone will unearth that statement and use it against the agency. Law enforcement agencies are getting FOIA'd all the time for such things, looking for "emphasis patrols" or quotas, decrease discretion, etc. I don't know how often PETA or similar groups submit a FOIA to WDFW but I would bet it's common. Suddenly one night on King5 you wil see "WA Fish and Wildlife allows Hunters to Shoot Coyotes & Waste Away" how terrible, blah blah, etc. The worst thing you can do is get some type of directive such as no enforcing X law in writing. And considering the current turmoil in WDFW, even if the Chief said it verbally, all it would take is a current or former employee to be like hey King5 check this out.

The best way to fix this problem is to change the law, however that is easier said then done.

I never said that hundreds of people are being cited for this every year. I am sure people get warned all the time for it (officer discretion). However that being said, people are cited for it as well. Heck, prior to 2012 it was a misdemeanor (0-$1,000 and 90 days in jail) to waste wildlife with a value under $250, now its just an infraction (ticket)

[bobcat]

Okay, thanks for your perspective. That all makes sense, but I still think it's stupid. I guess the main problem in this state is the WDFW is forced to walk on eggshells around all the anti-hunting types that live here. What can we do, other than move to another state?

[bobcat]

One more quick question- would it be illegal to trap a mouse in my garage and "waste" it? 

[bigtex]

One more quick question- would it be illegal to trap a mouse in my garage and "waste" it?

Yes because they are not considered "wildlife."

"Wildlife" means all species of the animal kingdom whose members exist in Washington in a wild state. This includes but is not limited to mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, and invertebrates. The term "wildlife" does not include feral domestic mammals, old world rats and mice of the family Muridae of the order Rodentia, or those fish, shellfish, and marine invertebrates classified as food fish or shellfish by the director. The term "wildlife" includes all stages of development and the bodily parts of wildlife members.

FYI, if you look at the Alaska hunting regs you will actually see the regulations for hunting/trapping mice 

[bigtex]

Okay, thanks for your perspective. That all makes sense, but I still think it's stupid. I guess the main problem in this state is the WDFW is forced to walk on eggshells around all the anti-hunting types that live here. What can we do, other than move to another state?

Well I mean even if WDFW did say they wanted to change "wildife" to "game animals" for the wastage law it would still need legislative approval, and this would certainly be a touchy subject. So would WDFW be walking on eggshells at that point? I don't think so, I think it would show they had the balls to ask for it. If it got shot down then they can say it's the legislature's fault. I think the reason WDFW hasn't asked for the change is because they know it will get shot down, they don't want to be viewed as the wildlife agency who only cares about the deer, elk, etc. They would probably burn some bridges with such a proposal and you never know when WDFW may need to cross that bridge.

[grundy53]

Okay, thanks for your perspective. That all makes sense, but I still think it's stupid. I guess the main problem in this state is the WDFW is forced to walk on eggshells around all the anti-hunting types that live here. What can we do, other than move to another state?

Well I mean even if WDFW did say they wanted to change "wildife" to "game animals" for the wastage law it would still need legislative approval, and this would certainly be a touchy subject. So would WDFW be walking on eggshells at that point? I don't think so, I think it would show they had the balls to ask for it. If it got shot down then they can say it's the legislature's fault. I think the reason WDFW hasn't asked for the change is because they know it will get shot down, they don't want to be viewed as the wildlife agency who only cares about the deer, elk, etc. They would probably burn some bridges with such a proposal and you never know when WDFW may need to cross that bridge.

Meanwhile coyote hunters are left hanging in the wind.

sent from my typewriter

[ICEMAN]

I hope all those carp shooters collect and eat all of their carp...

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Or the tribes tossing salmon on the bank to rot in the sun...

[Bob33]

Officers in support of citing hunters for waste of coyotes leads me to sadly conclude that ucwarden is right.

[HawkCreek]

One more quick question- would it be illegal to trap a mouse in my garage and "waste" it?

Yes because they are not considered "wildlife."

"Wildlife" means all species of the animal kingdom whose members exist in Washington in a wild state. This includes but is not limited to mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, and invertebrates. The term "wildlife" does not include feral domestic mammals, old world rats and mice of the family Muridae of the order Rodentia, or those fish, shellfish, and marine invertebrates classified as food fish or shellfish by the director. The term "wildlife" includes all stages of development and the bodily parts of wildlife members.

FYI, if you look at the Alaska hunting regs you will actually see the regulations for hunting/trapping mice 

I thought nutria were an "invasive species" because they were leftovers from fur farms of long ago? This seems like legal "splitting hairs" to me. If they are invasive and not native how are they counted as wildlife? I'm so glad I'm not a lawyer.