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Author Topic: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention  (Read 10667 times)

Offline Special T

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2014, 04:36:25 PM »
I would like to expand on what Curly said about retention and "Bad experiences". People when pulled over by the local city cop or Sheriff often are given verbal warnings to "educate" the driving population. It is a fairly common practice. On the flip side a verbal warning, or even a written one with out a citation is pretty rare as far as the WDFW is concerned.  If i were to guess the % would be the exact opposite.

Perhaps the number of barbed hook and cotten ball stories are overstated, But i can tell you I've been pulled over for a tail light bulb out several times (or some other small infraction) and had a pleasant exchange and sent on my way. I cannot say the same thing with my encounters for the WDFW. That does not mean there is a rule that needs changing, but rather the culture in the department.
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Offline kentrek

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2014, 05:00:15 PM »
Idk if something else mentioned it as a kinda skimmed the posts but I disagree with the three year licence that forces people to make a commitment....thats not solving the problem...its a band aid

Alot of good ideas on the "not buying an elk tag" thread

Offline Bob33

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2014, 05:22:15 PM »
It says quite a bit about the problem itself that an effort to ask our state's hunters how to improve retention and recruitment  is headed by a private individual and not WDFW.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2014, 06:05:19 PM »
The WDFW can retain more hunters by supporting hunters more. Change the tag system so we can hunt in all seasons. If we're losing that many hunters, this shouldn't be a problem. Some tags that are presently over the counter might have to go draw, but the increased opportunity would balance that out.

Open up predator seasons. Cougar should be year round. More Spring bear units, especially on the south-wetside were there are few, if any. Remove penalties for waste of game for coyotes.

I like the idea of more advanced hunter classes - maybe survival, conditioning, tracking basics. Give incentives to take the classes. You could earn higher ratings by completing successive classes and earn extra draw points or other hunting opportunities; it's something that ties you to the department/state.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 06:13:10 AM by pianoman9701 »
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Offline jackelope

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2014, 06:55:29 PM »

It says quite a bit about the problem itself that an effort to ask our state's hunters how to improve retention and recruitment  is headed by a private individual and not WDFW.

Dale is working for the government now. Don't forget. Him and Gov Inslee are besties.
:chuckle: 
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

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Offline Bob33

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2014, 06:58:56 PM »

It says quite a bit about the problem itself that an effort to ask our state's hunters how to improve retention and recruitment  is headed by a private individual and not WDFW.

Dale is working for the government now. Don't forget. Him and Gov Inslee are besties.
:chuckle:
Oops. Forgot that. Sorry Dale. PS - can you help me out with the draw just a wee bit?
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 07:55:28 PM »
Maybe he could have Ducks push the magic button.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 08:14:52 PM »
They can tinker around the edges of the problem, but no amount of marketing or outreach will achieve the same effects as focusing on access, opportunity, and cost.  Trends have been towards increasing costs, decreasing opportunities, and lately drastic access restrictions.  You don't need a formal Pareto analysis to understand that these are 80+% of the problem.

Offline Curly

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2014, 08:38:17 PM »
Those are the big three....access, opportunity,  and cost.  But somewhere in there is success.  People will give up eventually if they are not successful.  With the lack of access, high price of fuel,  increase in predators,  a person has a lot going against them.
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Online bearpaw

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 08:42:35 PM »
Bob33 and jackelope are funny... :chuckle:
I think I have most of the ideas updated in the first post, I will look at the link provided by jackelope, please continue to comment on hunter retention!  :tup:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Rider

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2014, 08:58:14 PM »
I used to fish but no longer do, because of a bad experience.
Yep. Reiters ended it for me. Guides just got too expensive. Used to be fun to fish on the Sky when I was growing up. The prison hole got to be like the Blue Zoo.

Hunter retention......
I just picked up bow hunting this year. With the internet it is easier to learn than when I was a boy. Still would be good to be able to learn in some type of mentor relationship. Part of the reason why I joined HuntWA.

I will say that the archery season duration is BS. The permit system is perplexing. If the fishing permit system was as complex as the hunting permits there would be a virtual riot from the anglers.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2014, 09:49:42 PM »
Quote
I will say that the archery season duration is BS. The permit system is perplexing. If the fishing permit system was as complex as the hunting permits there would be a virtual riot from the anglers.


I'm the opposite. I can't make sense of the fishing regulations. Hunting regulations to me are simple. But then I've been studying this state's hunting pamphlet every year for 35 years. So I could see where it might seem complex to others. But I sure don't think fishing regulations are any less complex.

Offline elksnout

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 10:02:48 PM »
  As for retention....I'm afraid we're losing the war. Too many take a ways.  Timber companies charging for access, Discover pass, forest recreation pass, higher license fees, gas prices, closed off roads, etc. Does anyone remember when forest service campgrounds stayed open through rifle elk free of charge? Choose you weapon, antler restrictions. A draw system that is iffy at best. Young people have no idea what we've lost. It makes me very sad but yet I still go out each year and give it hell. But how much longer hunting will survive in this state is anyone's guess. Well, I guess that I've dated myself, huh?
Can't we all just get along?

Offline huntrights

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 05:29:11 PM »
 :twocents:

Steps to retain current hunters:


•   The perception that WDFW regulates hunting to maximize revenue needs to be proven wrong by real actions from the WDFW (See below in “Reduce the cost of hunting in Washington”.


•   Reduce the cost of hunting in Washington:

o    When hunters apply for special or quality big game hunts, the WDFW charges the application fee plus the cost of the tag even though the hunter may not get drawn for their chosen hunts.  If not drawn, WDFW keeps all of the money.  They say the hunter may still go on the general hunt, but perhaps the hunter does not wish to participate in the general hunt for a variety of reasons.  For example: Hunter success during the general hunt may be rather low and hunt options are very restrictive (i.e. spike and true spike elk hunts).  The WDFW should give the hunter the option of a refund or to go on the general hunt; they should NOT just keep the money.  They basically have turned the cost of the application fee into the total cost of the hunting license and tags.  The bottom line is hunters are being charged for what they may not want.

o   The WDFW has broken hunting into small pieces and charges for each piece (i.e. hunting license, small game license, migratory bird permit, migratory bird authorization, pheasant permit, etc.).  This also holds true for fishing (Freshwater, saltwater, shellfish, razor clam, two-pole endorsement, Puget Sound Crab endorsement.  And, of course with all of this, the DISCOVER PASS and the Watchable Wildlife Decal.  This all tends to feed the perception of managing wildlife to maximize revenue.


•   The general elk season was moved a few weeks earlier in the year resulting in missing that start of the winter migration of elk out of the higher elevations.  In addition to that, some of the general season hunts are restricted to spike and true spike which put a hunter at risk of harvesting an elk that had that extra tine in the shadows or he had his head turned at a slight angle that hides the extra tine.  Suggestion: move the general season a few weeks later and ease up on the antler restrictions by widening the opportunity to a larger range of antlered elk.


•   Stop closing and destroying access roads (decommissioning).  Decommissioning procedures I have come across include:

o    Digging up the entire road bed and turning it into a series of densely located “moguls” (large humps).

o    Dumping large boulders along a large portion of the path.

o    Cutting down small saplings and crisscrossing the fallen tree trunks along the road path.

All of these methods of destruction make traversing the original road path extremely difficult and hazardous, or nearly impossible.  Whether people agree or not, my observation is that game animals like elk and deer will not traverse the destroyed areas unless under stress (i.e. spooked or being chased); they tend to walk to the side of the old road bed where it may still be smooth or they will walk completely off of the old path.  When given a choice, they also will take the easiest path that serves their purpose – just like humans.  Stop the destruction!  The only purpose behind such destructive activity is to deny access and keep people out.

If roads must be closed for valid reasons, then pursue non-destructive alternative actions like:

o     Road maintenance rotation.

o   “Forest roads to trails” and related forest access efforts similar to what has been promoted by Congresswoman Jamie Herrera Beutler and others to keep our forests healthy, safe, and accessible.

o       Avoid road decommissioning and protect road beds for future use by converting roads slated for closure into trails.

o    Close, stabilize and seed road beds; avoid decommissioning

o   Ensure public safety by stabilizing and maintaining road beds that can be re-opened for rescues, firefighting, and emergency evacuation routes when necessary.

o   Focus on creating and maintaining road loops to ensure ingress and egress for public safety.

o   Reduce cost by enhancing partnerships with [Stewardship] groups that can assist with road and trail maintenance.

o   Consider converting high maintenance level roads that are not major thoroughfares to lower maintenance levels.

o   Ensure access under the Americans with Disabilities Act by designating roads and trails for off-road vehicle access.

o   Pursue/explore possible funding opportunities for road maintenance:

o   Timber sales, Stewardship dollars, Federal road tax



•    Stop closing camping areas where hunters have camped for decades and forcing them into congested “camping cities”.


•    The regulations are convoluted and overly complicated.  Hunters can read the regulations, but still not be sure if they are complying with all of the laws.  LEOs should not be so quick to find fault and write citations when regulations are unclear and there was no intent to break the law.


o   For example: Transporting wildlife – “If quartered, the tag should remain with the carcass or largest portion of the carcass.”  If you happen to pick the wrong portion of the carcass on which to leave your tag, you just might end up with a serious citation even though you had no intention of breaking the law.  Since Washington hunters are placed in a position where they typically cannot retrieve big game using motorized vehicles, they must quarter the animals and carry them out (this, by the way, eliminates less capable people that would like to hunt).  Leaving a tag unattended on the carcass in the field while carrying back a quarter of the animal puts the hunter at risk of losing their tag plus getting a serious citation.  So what do you do?  Message to WDFW: Fix this!  Change the regulation to state the tag must be with at least one portion of the quartered animal.


•   Allow retrieval of big game using motorized vehicles when feasible.  It is important to get harvested animals processed quickly to avoid meat spoilage.


•   WDFW does not appear to promote hunting; however, they appear to accommodate anti-hunting and environmentalist sentiments due to political pressure.  The WDFW should visibly promote hunting versus giving the perception of continually making it more difficult and expensive.


•    Last general elk season, I spoke to over 20 hunters that indicated significant disappointment with the current situation.  Hunting has become too expensive, access is being taken away, roads are being closed and destroyed, camp areas are being closed, general seasons do not have reasonable hunter success due to timing, regulations have become more complicated, WDFW does not appear to be an advocate for hunters, and the WDFW appears to be revenue driven versus pursuing wildlife management based on sound and unbiased science and promoting hunting as a primary wildlife management tool.


•   Develop and offer mentor programs for adults and youth to open up hunting opportunities that many may not have considered.  For example, many hunters may have only hunted with modern rifle, but never considered archery or muzzleloader because they don’t know anyone that will introduce them to these alternatives.


•   Work closely with private land owners (i.e. timber companies, farmers, ranchers, etc.) to keep their lands open to hunting for free or a reasonable access fee.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 05:37:12 PM by huntrights »

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Input Needed RE: Hunter Retention
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2014, 08:46:24 PM »
Great post.

 


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