Traditional ammo ban on federal lands

[KFhunter]

http://offgridsurvival.com/hunting-on-public-lands-traditional-ammo-ban/

The U.S. Department of Interior is currently reviewing a plan presented by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) to ban traditional lead ammunition on all public lands. The traditional ammo ban would effectively ban hunters from using one-fifth of the total land area in the U.S.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/08/CA-Republican-Ban-On-Hunting-Disguised-As-Statewide-Ban-On-Lead-Ammo

California Assemblyman and gubernatorial candidate Tim Donnelly (R-33rd Dist.) says the proposed ban on lead ammunition awaiting Governor Jerry Brown's (D) signature is a de facto ban on hunting.
Donnelly was referring to AB711, which would ban lead ammo throughout California under the guise of protecting the state's Condor population. 
"This is a ban on hunting that is disguised as a lead ammo ban," Donnelly told Breitbart News on October 8. "It would force people to go non-lead bullets, but non-lead bullets are considered to be armor piercing, and if they can be fired through a handgun they are illegal to own. It is a breach of federal law to own arming piecing ammunition for handguns."
"This will effectively end ammunition options for hunters, ending hunting in CA as well," he explained. "And this makes no sense because hunters help us manage the wildlife population. And through licenses and other fees they actually pay the state to let them do the management."

discuss

[bigtex]

I will only speak to the DOI quote. Agencies are required to review all petitions/proposals they receive. I can write a proposal to WDFW today asking them that we have to wear a pink hat while hunting. Then you would see the following headline "WDFW Considering the Requirement of Pink Hats While Hunting" simply because the agencies reviews a proposal doesn't mean they are actually looking at implementing it. And even if DOI did ban lead (which it won't) it would apply to DOI lands only, so not to Forest Service, Army Corps, etc.

Any of you today can petition USFWS or NMFS to list ANYTHING under the protection of the ESA. By law the agency must review it, even if they know from the get go there will be no way the species will fall under ESA protection.

A lot of websites run with the whole "agency is reviewing" headline. Well agencies are reviewing hundreds of proposals everyday.

[washelkhunter]

The lead ban is coming and I dont have an issue with that. There are suitable substitutes which are not toxic and perform as well if not better. This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

[KFhunter]

Thanks BT


I gave this one a bit more credit because of California, so there is some trend there.  For proposals, some of them need strong public input to kill it.



I'm looking at one such beast right now with the snowmobiling on forest service lands in WA, probably see a post on that here shortly 

[jackelope]

Are all non-lead bullets considered "Armor piercing"?

All copper bullet:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/rifle/tsx-bullet/

Armor piercing? I think not, but then again, I'm far from an expert. That's the 1st thing that jumps out at me as BS.
 

I don't necessarily have an issue with non-lead ammo, but let's at least be realistic.

[bigtex]

Some of the WDFW Wildlife Areas are already no-lead areas. A couple years ago WDFW instituted no-lead fishing equipment in a handfull of lakes.

[Bob33]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

I think that's the point.

[huntnphool]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

[washelkhunter]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.

[bigtex]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.

Small game and birds.

[huntnphool]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.

Small game and birds.

I thought lead bird shot was already banned.

[bigtex]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.

Small game and birds.

I thought lead bird shot was already banned.

Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.

[huntnphool]

This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.

yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!

Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.

Small game and birds.

I thought lead bird shot was already banned.

Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.

I can see changing it for bird shot, but big game is a complete joke, varmint too.

 If this truly is a environmental/wildlife emergency, and I don't buy that for a second, then make it caliber restricted, like .22 caliber and smaller, since that's what 99% of prairie dogs and squirrels are hunted with.

[Bob33]

Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.

It can't be used on nearly all Wildlife Areas and National refuges.

[bigtex]

Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.

It can't be used on nearly all Wildlife Areas and National refuges.

I know Bob