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The U.S. Department of Interior is currently reviewing a plan presented by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) to ban traditional lead ammunition on all public lands. The traditional ammo ban would effectively ban hunters from using one-fifth of the total land area in the U.S.
California Assemblyman and gubernatorial candidate Tim Donnelly (R-33rd Dist.) says the proposed ban on lead ammunition awaiting Governor Jerry Brown's (D) signature is a de facto ban on hunting. Donnelly was referring to AB711, which would ban lead ammo throughout California under the guise of protecting the state's Condor population. "This is a ban on hunting that is disguised as a lead ammo ban," Donnelly told Breitbart News on October 8. "It would force people to go non-lead bullets, but non-lead bullets are considered to be armor piercing, and if they can be fired through a handgun they are illegal to own. It is a breach of federal law to own arming piecing ammunition for handguns.""This will effectively end ammunition options for hunters, ending hunting in CA as well," he explained. "And this makes no sense because hunters help us manage the wildlife population. And through licenses and other fees they actually pay the state to let them do the management."
This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on.
Quote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!
Quote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem.
Quote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:45:26 AMQuote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem. Small game and birds.
Quote from: bigtex on June 20, 2014, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:45:26 AMQuote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem. Small game and birds.I thought lead bird shot was already banned.
Quote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:52:22 AMQuote from: bigtex on June 20, 2014, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:45:26 AMQuote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem. Small game and birds.I thought lead bird shot was already banned.Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.
Not entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.
Quote from: bigtex on June 20, 2014, 11:02:58 AMNot entirely. It's illegal to use lead for waterfowl statewide. It's also illegal to use lead for upland bird hunting on WDFW pheasant release sites. Other than that you can use lead for all other birds.It can't be used on nearly all Wildlife Areas and National refuges.
Quote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:52:22 AMQuote from: bigtex on June 20, 2014, 10:46:23 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:45:26 AMQuote from: huntnphool on June 20, 2014, 10:34:17 AMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 20, 2014, 10:19:16 AM This is an issue hunters should be supporting and taking the lead on. yeah, because their one 150gr bullet they shoot every year while hunting actually has the potential to do so much damage to wildlife........oh brother!Its not a big game issue its a small game one. Think about all the guys shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels. All those carcasses are left to be scavenged and rot. A lot of lead fragments are being taken up by scavengers and birds. It starts to be a compounded problem. Small game and birds.I thought lead bird shot was already banned. I Was Shot In The Knee With A Pellet Gun When I Was9 I carried That Pellet for Eleven Years. Nothing Wrong With Me..... Wait A Minute.. IM Am As Messed Up As They Come!
I Say No to the hell NO! We think this ok next will be something else, can't believe people truly think this ok?It's coming from HSUS For dang sakes the biggest anti hunting group out there!Nothing like divide and conquer huh?
Lead is highly toxic and detrimental to the wildlife we are supposed to be championing. If banning lead bullets will help the wildlife of the land then we should be supporting that.
It makes sense for waterfowl because the pellets are concentrated in the ponds. This would have no positive effects in the woods where there may be no more than a few bullets per sq mile. Ridiculous.
Quote from: washelkhunter on June 23, 2014, 02:37:44 PMLead is highly toxic and detrimental to the wildlife we are supposed to be championing. If banning lead bullets will help the wildlife of the land then we should be supporting that.The Truth Behind The Assault On Traditional Ammunitionhttp://www.huntfortruth.org/
Quote from: huntrights on June 23, 2014, 08:27:47 PMQuote from: washelkhunter on June 23, 2014, 02:37:44 PMLead is highly toxic and detrimental to the wildlife we are supposed to be championing. If banning lead bullets will help the wildlife of the land then we should be supporting that.The Truth Behind The Assault On Traditional Ammunitionhttp://www.huntfortruth.org/They're just a wit bit biased.http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/08/nra-pulled-its-science-denying-website-that-cla/195299
Is there bias in Hunt for Truth? The NRA has stood by our sides and fought for our rights. Media Matters works to discredit conservative views. Who should we believe?
There is a lot of information and propaganda out there, and most of us are not qualified research scientists capable of determining which studies are based on sound and unbiased science and which studies are fuzzy, manipulated, and biased science to serve specific agendas.However, there are two simple questions people can ask themselves. 1) Who are the primary organizations pushing for the ban on traditional ammunition? a. Answer: Two of the primary organizations are: i. Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) ii. Center for Biological Diversity (CBD)2) Who are the primary organizations fighting against the ban on traditional ammunition: a. Answer: Some of the primary organizations are: i. National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) ii. Safari Club International (SCI) iii. U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance (USSA) iv. National Rifle Association - Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA)Are all of these organizations biased in their organizational missions? Answer: Absolutely.Here are a couple more questions:• Has the Humane Society of the United States or the Center for Biological Diversity done anything in support of hunting, hunters, gun ownership, or the shooting sports?o Answer: Available information on these two organizations indicates that they fall into the category of organizations generally referred to as “antis”. No need to say more.• Has NSSF, SCI, USSA, and NRA-ILA done anything in support of hunting, hunters, gun ownership, or the shooting sports?o Answer: A resounding YES! They are our allies. They fight for rights to hunt, fish, own firearms, and participate in shooting sports.Ultimately we must all decide who we will place our trust in since most of us do not have the time, resources, or expertise to do the detailed research ourselves. At some point we must rely on the research, supporting science, and arguments presented by one side or the other. Since this is a hunting forum, it is likely that HSUS and CBD will lose.It would be interesting to do a poll asking who believes the research, supporting science, and arguments presented by HSUS and CBD versus the research, supporting science, and arguments presented by NSSF, SCI, USSA, and the NRA-ILA. My vote goes with the NSSF, SCI, USSA, and the NRA-ILA, but that’s just my .
Are all non-lead bullets considered "Armor piercing"?All copper bullet:http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/rifle/tsx-bullet/Armor piercing? I think not, but then again, I'm far from an expert. That's the 1st thing that jumps out at me as BS. I don't necessarily have an issue with non-lead ammo, but let's at least be realistic.
Quote from: jackelope on June 20, 2014, 10:22:18 AMAre all non-lead bullets considered "Armor piercing"?All copper bullet:http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/rifle/tsx-bullet/Armor piercing? I think not, but then again, I'm far from an expert. That's the 1st thing that jumps out at me as BS. I don't necessarily have an issue with non-lead ammo, but let's at least be realistic.The devil is in the DETAILS...the "armor-piercing ammo" legislation usually goes after construction. With words like "Monolithic" and "non-lead construction". When you couple that with a ban on "bullets containing or substancially constructed of Lead or Lead Alloys" that pretty well wipes out the handgun bullet market. Another for instance is the Barnes Banded Solid.... Barnes’ Banded Solids™ stop dangerous game right now! In life-threatening situations, you can depend on Banded Solids to put the largest animal down. Machined from homogenous copper/zinc alloy, these indestructible bullets won’t disintegrate or deflect on heavy bone. In smaller calibers these bullets have been deemed "Armor Piercing" by TPTB due to the Monolithic nature., so its a slippery slope at best.
Bullshat! I have a rather large supply of lead hunting ammo. I will have to consider risking a ticket before just throwing it all out.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 23, 2014, 03:33:06 PMIt makes sense for waterfowl because the pellets are concentrated in the ponds. This would have no positive effects in the woods where there may be no more than a few bullets per sq mile. Ridiculous.Not neccessary so. Back in my younger days with WDFW as a biologist in Region 2, I took lots of samples looking for lead shot deposits from areas in Grant, Adams and Franklin counties prior to the eventual change over a few years later to non toxic shot. Many or those areas, including the Pothholes Reservoir showed no retention of lead available to waterfowl as it was mostly sandy bottoms and the lead was not there due to sinking lower than say in a hardpan bottom pond where it would remain on the top of the bottom surface.