Hunting Spots Destroyed?

[Skyvalhunter]

What a lot of people don't realize now is the Methow deer herd is a mere shadow of what it used to be. It has continued to decline. Now there is another predator raising it's head, then you throw in the WDFW's proposal to increase doe tags. It's a shame to see this once trophy herd diminished to what it is.

[bigmacc]

What a lot of people don't realize now is the Methow deer herd is a mere shadow of what it used to be. It has continued to decline. Now there is another predator raising it's head, then you throw in the WDFW's proposal to increase doe tags. It's a shame to see this once trophy herd diminished to what it is.

Heres some numbers that will make your head spin, and to some, make you sick to your stomach. It may open others eyes to the direction this herd is heading and how it is not the pride and joy of the GAME dept as it once was pre 1970,s......Here ya go---Amongst these units(212,218,224,230,236 and half of 242) in 1968,the mule deer harvest was 14,260 animals,nearly40 percent of the total mule deer harvest for washington state came out of these 6 units that year! Compare this to Mr Fitkens estimate of a total of about 10,000 mule deer(locals and migration animals) who use this valley today,do the math-about 4 thousand more animals were HARVESTED in 1968 than what they estimate the WHOLE HERD to be now for gosh sakes!!!(and IMHO i think that estimate of 10,000 is way high!)Now the season of 1968 was a good year for sure but it puts into perspective the direction this once mighty herd is headed. I believe this herd was once estimated at around 30 to 40 thousand animals in the not to distance past. In my opinion they are not the priority they once were with other issues,programs and interests taking priority now...The numbers dont lie unfortunatly....my 

[no.cen.wa]

It will be interesting to get "in the woods" and see how hot the fire got, 20 years ago there was a small fire at the head of Wolf Canyon, east of Lower Beaver Creek Rd.  it burned so hot that nothing grew for 10-12 years, there wasn't even a stump left where it was hottest. From what I could see from hiway 20 it wasn't that hot, I only hope most of it wasn't that hot.
By the way, although there was no vegetation the deer still moved though, just nothing to stop for!    Time will tell

[bigmacc]

What a lot of people don't realize now is the Methow deer herd is a mere shadow of what it used to be. It has continued to decline. Now there is another predator raising it's head, then you throw in the WDFW's proposal to increase doe tags. It's a shame to see this once trophy herd diminished to what it is.

I stand shoulder to shoulder with you on this one

[no.cen.wa]

bigmacc, can you remember when the wdfw gave 500 doe tags for unit 224,,, and 500 for each of all the surrounding units? I think 1960's-1970's. We always put in for the tag and wouldn't use it if we were drawn. I also remember talking to a retired wdfw guy at the game range on the Loop Loop, he told me he would bring feed in for the deer to help them make it though the winter. He said there would be 300-400 deer in Shrive Canyon when they migrated down for the winter. I was pretty excited about that till I talked to my grandfather, he had a ranch not far from there, He said "thats too bad" he said he would ride his horse up to Shrive and Peterson Canyons and would lose track of the count when it got over 1000 or so, he said thats sitting still and counting, not moving around! He moved there form Wenatchee in the 1920's, not sure of the year, but he was there to the 1950's
     How times change! Now thats sad!

[bigmacc]

bigmacc, can you remember when the wdfw gave 500 doe tags for unit 224,,, and 500 for each of all the surrounding units? I think 1960's-1970's. We always put in for the tag and wouldn't use it if we were drawn. I also remember talking to a retired wdfw guy at the game range on the Loop Loop, he told me he would bring feed in for the deer to help them make it though the winter. He said there would be 300-400 deer in Shrive Canyon when they migrated down for the winter. I was pretty excited about that till I talked to my grandfather, he had a ranch not far from there, He said "thats too bad" he said he would ride his horse up to Shrive and Peterson Canyons and would lose track of the count when it got over 1000 or so, he said thats sitting still and counting, not moving around! He moved there form Wenatchee in the 1920's, not sure of the year, but he was there to the 1950's
     How times change! Now thats sad!

I beleive your right no.cen.wa, I think permits were issued going back into the 40,s and 50,s at different times also.They did not issue doe tags the year after the bad winters of 1936-37..1942-43...1949-50...1955-56...1964-65...or 1968-69. Funny,I remeber myself and our family doing the same things with doe tags,anyone in our camp that had them would use them for fire starter ,....Yep i remember seeing with my own eyes and hearing stories of the 1,2 and 300 head herds in that valley.I once saw one during the season as a matter of fact,it was when the season went into november and I and a pardner had a good feeling about a migration route we knew of,the weather,moon and conditions were all in place and i had a feeling we were gonna hit it perfect...And we did! we seen a couple hundred head of the big bodied, dark migrators (with their tongues hanging out from traveling) move thru a saddle and down thru a big draw,watched em move thru for about an hour til they dissapeared.Not a shot was fired,every one of em was does and yearlings,not a horn in the bunch,not even a spike!  .Heck During the late 50,s(when I myself started hunting that area) thru about the mid 80,s it was nothing to see 100 deer a day, and some milling around in groups of 20 to 30 during rifle season. Those days are long gone I,m afraid and will probably become alot worse.Now its a big deal and a rareity to see 10 in a bunch during the season.....Yes sir, very sad.

[khunter#1]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Have not been able to access the forum for a couple days, been having computer problems.

[boneaddict]

Good to hear from some folks that have been there and done that and KNOW.   Last spring I saw a whopping 20 deer in that canyon where there used to be 800-1000.   The herd is pitiful compared to the past that I know of it and I am not going back as far as you guys.   Some of the range that used to have 100's of deer only had what you could count on one or TWO hands this last spring.   Quite frankly at these levels, the remaining range might even be enough to sustain the others coming into it.    I wonder if the powers to be are almost excited as this is a great excuse to divert off of their wolf catastrophe.   Now they can blame the horrible fire of 2014 and the winter afterwards for the demise of the herd.   Some of us will know that the hole was already dug and coffin hovereing to be lowered. 

[bigmacc]

Good to hear from some folks that have been there and done that and KNOW.   Last spring I saw a whopping 20 deer in that canyon where there used to be 800-1000.   The herd is pitiful compared to the past that I know of it and I am not going back as far as you guys.   Some of the range that used to have 100's of deer only had what you could count on one or TWO hands this last spring.   Quite frankly at these levels, the remaining range might even be enough to sustain the others coming into it.    I wonder if the powers to be are almost excited as this is a great excuse to divert off of their wolf catastrophe.   Now they can blame the horrible fire of 2014 and the winter afterwards for the demise of the herd.   Some of us will know that the hole was already dug and coffin hovereing to be lowered.

You got it right in the crosshairs bone! .....and sadly your right about the hole already being dug and the longterm plight of this herd

[no.cen.wa]

One thing I wish I had done,,, before this burn, is spend a few days in my old hunting grounds at the end of October and the first of November, that is when our hunting group would hunt before they shortened the season and threw us all into the same week. We would always hunt the last week of the season, and it always ended after October, or first few days of November, heck I remember Veterans day being the day after the season ended and we had an extra day to pack up camp.
I would like to compare the deer now to see how it would compare to the past.
I don't think the wdfw will ever extend seasons again, they got $692,000 in 2013 for Quality deer and Buck deer draw tags alone!, thats just those two, not counting the others and the cost of the license. Maybe they could have a draw tag for Wolves, now I'd try that one!
OK I'll shutup
   John G 

[bigmacc]

One thing I wish I had done,,, before this burn, is spend a few days in my old hunting grounds at the end of October and the first of November, that is when our hunting group would hunt before they shortened the season and threw us all into the same week. We would always hunt the last week of the season, and it always ended after October, or first few days of November, heck I remember Veterans day being the day after the season ended and we had an extra day to pack up camp.
I would like to compare the deer now to see how it would compare to the past.
I don't think the wdfw will ever extend seasons again, they got $692,000 in 2013 for Quality deer and Buck deer draw tags alone!, thats just those two, not counting the others and the cost of the license. Maybe they could have a draw tag for Wolves, now I'd try that one!
OK I'll shutup
   John G

We used to hunt the same time frames you guys hunted,sadly i can tell you this no.cen.wa, i have been over there in some of our old hunting spots the last few years during those time frames you spoke of(end of oct/first of nov) and its not even close to the number of animals you fellas probably used to see. I like your idea on the draw tag idea for wolves,WDFW would probably raise alot of money peddling those things

[huntnphool]

 I too remember those times, counting 300-400 on a hillside in a few different canyons. Funny how there were more hunters back then too and yet I seldom saw more than a handful total in a weeks worth of hunting the hills.

 Some great hunting spots have burned this year, I'm hoping a few more of them are spared.

[runamuk]

It will be interesting to get "in the woods" and see how hot the fire got, 20 years ago there was a small fire at the head of Wolf Canyon, east of Lower Beaver Creek Rd.  it burned so hot that nothing grew for 10-12 years, there wasn't even a stump left where it was hottest. From what I could see from hiway 20 it wasn't that hot, I only hope most of it wasn't that hot.
By the way, although there was no vegetation the deer still moved though, just nothing to stop for!    Time will tell

this concerns me...all the "let it burn its natures way" people do not understand sterilized (incinerated) ground grows nothing no grass no trees no weeds, it essentially is the same as say the blast zone of st helens or ground zero at Hiroshima.  Fire of that magnitude is bad for the environment and bad for wildlife.   I also want to get in and see with my own eyes just how bad it was in some spots. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Very true sterilized ground just doesn't grow vegitation which ultimately leads to the loss of feeding range. I have seen areas that burned in the late 60's where very little is growing

[singleshot12]

Maybe some of these crucial deer areas can be re-planted and seeded.

Aren't the areas that are so incinerated the same areas where the underbrush was too thick? Maybe these areas should of been let naturally burned years ago?