Dr. Mora requests your assistance with independent elk hoof disease research

[jongosch]

Many of you are already familiar with Dr. Boone Mora, a Parasitology expert and former County Health Director living in Skamokawa.  Dr. Mora continues to believe there is a strong chance that the source of elk hoof disease is a deadly bacterial infection known as leptospirosis.  Importantly, this infection is considered the world's most common zoonosis, meaning it can easily be transmitted from animals to humans, and can be fatal if proper precautions aren't taken.  Leptospirosis is commonly misdiagnosed as aseptic meningitis, hepatitis, influenza, pneumonia, brucellosis and food poisoning.

For the past two years Dr. Mora has offered his help and expertise to WDFW at no expense, but so far his generosity has been stonewalled at every turn.  It is well worth mentioning that WDFW's own research demonstrates that leptospirosis is indeed present in our elk herds and began to infect significant numbers of elk around the same time that hoof disease was first reported in SW Washington.  Some have tried to paint Dr. Mora as an old crackpot, but I can assure you that the man is brilliant.  Recently I was contacted by RMEF and it appears they will be featuring Dr. Mora in their upcoming issue of Bugle magazine.

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe herbicides are at the root of hoof rot, HOWEVER, I am not a scientist nor an expert therefore I SUPPORT any HONEST scientific research that may help us understand the cause of this disease and which may protect hunters from exposure to dangerous bactera.

Here's how you can help:

Dr. Mora just purchased $300 worth of media which he would like to utilize by obtaining biological samples of freshly killed elk, preferably those suffering from hoof disease.  Dr. Mora would like to obtain small samples from the elk's kidney, eye, blood, and synovial fluid from the joints.  The challenge is that the elk must be freshly killed (within a couple hours) so assisting with sample collection will take some coordination.  Dr. Mora told me that he would be willing to trail hunters in his own vehicle or be on-call to meet those hunting in the Willapa area.  Best of all would be hunters willing to let him ride along in their vehicles. 

Those interested in assisting with this independent research project are asked to contact Dr. Boone Mora personally at:

360-795-8716
or
booneandjean@gmail.com

Learn more about Dr. Mora and leptospirosis here:
http://jongosch.com/infected-elk-may-pose-serious-health-risk-to-humans/

[jackelope]

The challenge is that the elk must be freshly killed (within a couple hours) so assisting with sample collection will take some coordination.  Dr. Mora told me that he would be willing to trail hunters in his own vehicle or be on-call to meet those hunting in the Willapa area. 

Is there any hunts still open in there anymore this year?
I don't see anything in the Willapa Hills GMU 506.

 

[jongosch]

Jackelope, I'm sure you're right.  I hadn't consulted the game pamphlet about the Willapa.  But Dr. Mora is willing to do some driving to get his samples.  As long as the elk is legally harvested.

[idahohuntr]

So, if someone were doing research relying on legally harvested elk...wouldn't it make a whole lot of sense to identify when seasons are open so as to maximize one's opportunity to collect samples?  Typically, research is carefully planned and implemented in ways that minimize oversight like this.

While this is perhaps a simple mistake it does not give me much faith that Dr. Mora possesses the knowledge and abilities to address this serious issue.  I think we can all applaud Dr. Mora for having a desire to help elk...but this little mistake is just one prime example of why we should leave wildlife research to the professionals.  The only thing worse than no information is bad information.    

[bobcat]

Lots of January cow permits. Plus archery season from Nov 26 - Dec 15.

[idahohuntr]

I stand corrected.  Perhaps Dr. Mora has a better sampling plan than I presumed.

[chester]

A lot of limping cows are going to be taken this week, I'll call if anyone I know fills there tag.


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[jackelope]

Lots of January cow permits. Plus archery season from Nov 26 - Dec 15.

Gotcha. Missed those.

[Little Dave]

So, if someone were doing research relying on legally harvested elk...wouldn't it make a whole lot of sense to identify when seasons are open so as to maximize one's opportunity to collect samples?  Typically, research is carefully planned and implemented in ways that minimize oversight like this.

While this is perhaps a simple mistake it does not give me much faith that Dr. Mora possesses the knowledge and abilities to address this serious issue.  I think we can all applaud Dr. Mora for having a desire to help elk...but this little mistake is just one prime example of why we should leave wildlife research to the professionals.  The only thing worse than no information is bad information.   

Apparently he worked as a guest researcher studying this organism for the CDC back in 1977.  They don't let just any country bumpkin walk in the door and start messing around with the stuff in the petri dishes. He earned his doctorate the next year at the University of North Carolina.  Retired from a career in public health over there and now lives in our area.  I think it's neat that we have a credentialed biologist volunteering to look into this matter for us.  Apparently he is proactive.  Last February he tried to solicit help from the DFW.  The relevant minutes from the meeting on February 12, 2014.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/ehd/minutes_021214_EHD.pdf
Boone Mora: He knows what causes the disease and how to cure it.  Leptospirosis is not diagnosed in the US because 83% of cases are missed. He doesn't believe it is treponema because treponema works on the hoof. He has read many papers on Leptospirosis and there are 200 types (it is ubiquitous) and it is transported by water. There is a primary lesion in all forms which is damage to the epithelial cells of the small membranes. He did a study that showed 20% of the US population has had Leptospirosis. He believes it is the cause of HD and it has not been investigated and would like to investigate it for free. All he needs is three elk.

This was well before the application period for draws.  In the past I've received letters forwarded from the department asking for a sample of this or that when I draw a permit.  So the department could have assisted Dr. Mora.

So I turn the criticism around to the DFW, who may have a number of staff members as credentialed as Dr. Mora among their staff.  Deliver him three elk as he has requested.

[t6]

The research was left up to the "Professionals" (Laughable at best).... In 20 years they have given us three guesses so far but have refused to test for what seems to be the obvious. 

Yup... that's great science.... 

Good Luck to Dr. Mora with his testing.  If by chance I shoot one that is ill, I'll grab some samples and head his way. 

[pianoman9701]

Dr. Mora may not have a handle on our different elk seasons and units, as he's not a hunter himself. Many of our hunters have a hard time figuring those out, too. The fact that such an esteemed biologist is willing to give his free time and testing resources speaks volumes about his character and his concern for our wildlife. Attempts to discredit him and his research by WDFW biologists and others connected to the timber industry tells me that he's striking nerves. His vast experience in work specifically with leptospirosis shouldn't be ignored. But so far, it has been, at least by the people who could most benefit of it.

[headshot5]

I know the WDFW is planning on culling some limping elk here in the next few months.  I'm guessing there are going to be some Master Hunters involved in the culling.  It is quite possible some of these Master Hunters are involved on this site.  It would be a very opportune time for someone involved to collect samples.  Just a thought for some of the Master Hunters out there.   

[RadSav]

Dr. Mora just purchased $300 worth of media which he would like to utilize by obtaining biological samples of freshly killed elk, preferably those suffering from hoof disease.

What kind of media?  And how do you utilize media in this manner?  $300 doesn't sound like very much!

If I had a rifle cow tag I'd certainly allow this guy to tag along.  Sounds like that would be one great opportunity to learn a great deal.  If there were any elk left in the Winston I would invite him on an archery hunt.  Four years ago that would be a short hunt and productive for him.  These days it would probably be a waste of time

[pianoman9701]

I know the WDFW is planning on culling some limping elk here in the next few months.  I'm guessing there are going to be some Master Hunters involved in the culling.  It is quite possible some of these Master Hunters are involved on this site.  It would be a very opportune time for someone involved to collect samples.  Just a thought for some of the Master Hunters out there.   

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered.

[jongosch]

What kind of media?  And how do you utilize media in this manner?  $300 doesn't sound like very much!

Media or culture medium is something designed to help grow and develop microorganisms, bacteria, cells, etc. so that a scientist can study them more closely. 

[RadSav]

What kind of media?  And how do you utilize media in this manner?  $300 doesn't sound like very much!

Media or culture medium is something designed to help grow and develop microorganisms, bacteria, cells, etc. so that a scientist can study them more closely.

I was being a little sarcastic.  Thought the wording and the posting of budget for such was odd.  But that is a nice clarification and appreciated.

[jongosch]

Dr. Mora may not have a handle on our different elk seasons and units, as he's not a hunter himself.

Actually Dr. Mora told me he used to harvest a lot of deer back in North Carolina. 

[pianoman9701]

Dr. Mora may not have a handle on our different elk seasons and units, as he's not a hunter himself.

Actually Dr. Mora told me he used to harvest a lot of deer back in North Carolina.

Even more of a reason he'd have a hard time deciphering our rules. Hunting season regulations back east are way simpler to understand than they are here.

[idahohuntr]

Below is a statement from a current research microbiologist and leptospirosis expert who has assisted WDFW in the investigation:

According to Dr. Jennifer Wilson-Welder, research microbiologist and leptospirosis expert at U.S. Department of Agriculture National Animal Disease Center:  “Several strains of leptospirosis are endemic in wild and domestic animals throughout the world, including Washington.  In endemic hosts, such as deer, elk, cattle, rodents, raccoons, and other wildlife, the disease is limited to the kidney, urinary and reproductive tracts. Muscle and joint pain reported by humans and other susceptible animals, such as dogs or horses, with leptospirosis is due to severe systemic sepsis and a generalized fever response. Systemic sepsis is not a feature of the disease in endemic animal hosts, and has not been observed in any Washington elk examined to date. Leptospirosis does not affect the hooves of animals; and lameness has not been reported as a feature of clinical leptospirosis in farmed New Zealand red deer, a species closely related to North American elk. Proper diagnostic tests have been applied to samples collected from elk, and positive results were found in both non-hoof diseased animals/areas as well as the ones with hoof lesions. Lack of similarity of clinical signs and failure to find Leptospira titers isolated to only the hoof-diseased animals indicate to the veterinary and research team that leptospirosis is not a cause of the hoof-disease[/b]."

While many people want to help, it seems very clear the Leptospirosis has been ruled out by the experts.  I don't post this in an attempt to discredit Dr. Mora, but out of a desire to make sure we don't waste time and resources on causes that can be clearly ruled out.  Stirring up the public and their elected leaders on things that simply won't help solve the hoof rot issue only detracts from available resources that could be better spent actually solving the issue and identifying the best possible management options.

[pianoman9701]

One expert has ruled it out. One thinks it's the problem. Have you some degree in the area of which we're unaware?

[Curly]

I don't see a problem with Dr Mora doing an independent study at no expense to WDFW.  If hunters are willing to help him get some samples, I see no problem.  Maybe he'll rule it out and end up agreeing with the WDFW expert...........or maybe he'll get some data to change the mind of the WDFW expert.  What could it really hurt for him to do his study? 

[GBoyd]

I'm going to be hunting in that area, but I'm not confident enough in my ability to find elk to have a biologist riding along. I would however be happen to plate samples from a harvest elk, if Dr. Mora shares his sampling protocol.

This is not a difficult process for most types of selective media.

[idahohuntr]

One expert has ruled it out. One thinks it's the problem. Have you some degree in the area of which we're unaware?

Its not one expert.  That statement was a consensus statement of the Technical Advisory Group which consists of dozens of independent experts.  WDFW experts and veterinarians as well as the Public Health Veterinarian for Wa Dept. of Health have concluded there is no basis for suggesting Lepto. is the cause.

I agree Curly...Dr. Mora can go collect whatever samples he would like from any willing hunters out there.  I'm pleased WDFW is not participating though...I don't want them wasting any more time and money on something that has been ruled out. 

 

[jongosch]

I'm going to be hunting in that area, but I'm not confident enough in my ability to find elk to have a biologist riding along. I would however be happen to plate samples from a harvest elk, if Dr. Mora shares his sampling protocol.

This is not a difficult process for most types of selective media.

Thanks GBoyd.  I encourage you to give Dr. Mora a call.  I'm confident you two could work something out.

[pianoman9701]

"Independent" may not be quite an accurate description for some of the other "experts". But keep raising the WDFW banner. You're doing a great job. 

[idahohuntr]

I don't provide this supporting evidence out of some blind love for WDFW.  I bring this stuff up because I care about elk and wildlife resources and I know WDFW has been forced to spend time and resources on an issue that has been ruled out by all scientific evidence.  When the critics become counter-productive I think its necessary to point out why they are wrong and why they should stop pushing junk science.

[Little Dave]

Let's look at junk science.  How does it happen and why?

Junk science happens when politics or money is used to coerce an expert or even a panel of experts to produce a desired "best science" result.  People, even scientists can be bought.  It is easy to do.  I'll fund your project if...  You will be promoted or get to keep your job if...  Your budget will be cut unless...

Unfortunately, the DFW and federal agencies are not immune to a junk science result and we see junk science results all the time.  We witness this in the pharmaceutical industry where we see two minute ads for a recently approved drug by FDA experts one year, then a year later the ads for class action lawsuits for people that suffered after taking that drug.  The same can be said of other junk science affecting matters such as rising sea level, the wolves, the fish, safety of the crew working at Hanford.

Try not to give politically funded organizations too much leeway.  Their leaders are politicians and industry lobbyists and a lot of them get to where they are by smiling, shaking your hand, and lying to your face.  Every now and then the public makes a mistake and votes for an ugly one that speaks poorly and is a true volunteer statesman.

If Dr. Mora is an ethical scientist, he will run his test and get the same result as any peer ethical scientist.  Let him go ahead, he doesn't ask for much.  The fact that he is volunteering and does not seem to be taking political influence or money from the government or timber interests means to me that his result, corroborating or refuting the result of the expert panel, would not be the result to be considered junk science.

[chester]

I'm not seeing how people can already be arguing with the results of a study that hasn't been done yet. Strange logic or psychic ability ? Idk


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[idahohuntr]

It does not take psychic ability to read the reports and analyses evaluating leptospirosis in elk already produced by WDFW.  Nor does it take psychic ability to read reports published by WDFW confirming that treponeme bacteria has been isolated in hoof rot elk.  And it most certainly does not take psychic ability to read the consensus statement of a panel of independent experts unequivocally confirming that no evidence suggests leptospirosis is the cause of hoof rot.  All good research should begin with a thorough review of existing information.

[Little Dave]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Indeed, and somewhat ironic that you invoke Roosevelt's phrase in this manner amidst your criticism of the credentialed volunteer.  Don't be too critical of the volunteer doing the work.

The state's failure to cooperate with a reasonable request from Dr. Mora in a timely manner is suspicious.  If their work is solid, his work would corroborate that.  No skin off their nose, so why delay?  Some form of political coercion or ethics issue would be in play for them not to cooperate.  Therefore, any work they produce should be considered suspect, and their cohort potentially corrupted.

[idahohuntr]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Indeed, and somewhat ironic that you invoke Roosevelt's phrase in this manner amidst your criticism of the credentialed volunteer.  Don't be too critical of the volunteer doing the work.

The state's failure to cooperate with a reasonable request from Dr. Mora in a timely manner is suspicious.  If their work is solid, his work would corroborate that.  No skin off their nose, so why delay?  Some form of political coercion or ethics issue would be in play for them not to cooperate.  Therefore, any work they produce should be considered suspect, and their cohort potentially corrupted.

TR's quote very much applies...to the folks at WDFW working day in and day out serving the public by using the best science all while being constantly criticized in public domains.  They are out publishing cutting edge science on what is potentially behind hoof rot which brings them another step closer to figuring out the best management options for protecting our elk. 

[motg9_6]

i still have a hard time believing with todays technology they havent found the cause yet, once again ALL resources should be EXHAUSTED, follow up studies confirming results and test heck third and fourth studies and tests. as hunters we should all be behind finding out what the cause is before its too late.
what happens when you take your car to the shop because you think it has an issue and the first mechanic tells you theres nothing wrong?? YOU TAKE IT TO ANOTHER MECHANIC. same should apply here!

[idahohuntr]

http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2014/10/27/JCM.02276-14.abstract

I think we've got the right mechanic   

[dreamunelk]

http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2014/10/27/JCM.02276-14.abstract

I think we've got the right mechanic 

 

The live stock industry has been dealing with this for a long time and spent a lot of money trying to figure out.  Peer reviewed science is what we should be learning from.  Not conspiracy theories or self proclaimed experts who want to conduct studies that are not subject to peer review.

[pianoman9701]

http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2014/10/27/JCM.02276-14.abstract

I think we've got the right mechanic 

 

The live stock industry has been dealing with this for a long time and spent a lot of money trying to figure out.  Peer reviewed science is what we should be learning from.  Not conspiracy theories or self proclaimed experts who want to conduct studies that are not subject to peer review.

First of all, Dr. More is as far from a "self-proclaimed expert" as can be. He's recognized the world over as an expert in his field. Secondly, he's not asking for no peer review. He's asking to conduct studies which the WDFW has refused to conduct. They have consistently avoided doing any testing for agricultural chemicals in their toxicologies, admittedly. And, just because this looks like the same disease that affect domestic stock, doesn't mean it's so. The WDFW has known about this problem for over 20 years. The fact is that they have no conclusive evidence that this is the same disease as found affecting domestic livestock.

[idahohuntr]

Oh...he's testing for chemicals now? I thought it was lepto?  What will it be next week?  Maybe he should read wdfw's research...he needs to catch up with the rest of the scientific community if he wants to help.  Of course if he and others want to just use and exploit this serious issue for selfish interests...then I can see why he would rather just twist in the wind about possible causes.  It would also explain why he hasn't done anything or produced a single shred of data or evidence of anything.  Folks say "let him do the study"...we'll nobody is stopping him...what's the hold up?  Why hasn't he already collected samples and solved this?  While quick to criticize, he hasn't produced anything in several years but hot air. 

Meanwhile wdfw has isolated a specific bacteria associated only with the hoof deformities...a breakthrough that may lead to the best management options.  Their research is reviewed by panels of independent experts and is on the best path to save elk herds.

I know who I want working on this problem.

[mfswallace]

Oh...he's testing for chemicals now? I thought it was lepto?  What will it be next week?  Maybe he should read wdfw's research...he needs to catch up with the rest of the scientific community if he wants to help.  Of course if he and others want to just use and exploit this serious issue for selfish interests...then I can see why he would rather just twist in the wind about possible causes.  It would also explain why he hasn't done anything or produced a single shred of data or evidence of anything.  Folks say "let him do the study"...we'll nobody is stopping him...what's the hold up?  Why hasn't he already collected samples and solved this?  While quick to criticize, he hasn't produced anything in several years but hot air. 

Meanwhile wdfw has isolated a specific bacteria associated only with the hoof deformities...a breakthrough that may lead to the best management options.  Their research is reviewed by panels of independent experts and is on the best path to save elk herds.

I know who I want working on this problem.

 

[JimmyHoffa]

Oh...he's testing for chemicals now? I thought it was lepto?  What will it be next week?  Maybe he should read wdfw's research...he needs to catch up with the rest of the scientific community if he wants to help.  Of course if he and others want to just use and exploit this serious issue for selfish interests...then I can see why he would rather just twist in the wind about possible causes.  It would also explain why he hasn't done anything or produced a single shred of data or evidence of anything.  Folks say "let him do the study"...we'll nobody is stopping him...what's the hold up?  Why hasn't he already collected samples and solved this?  While quick to criticize, he hasn't produced anything in several years but hot air. 

Meanwhile wdfw has isolated a specific bacteria associated only with the hoof deformities...a breakthrough that may lead to the best management options.  Their research is reviewed by panels of independent experts and is on the best path to save elk herds.

I know who I want working on this problem.

 

  don't know why some want to suppress an alternative approach.  Confused by the vitriol.

[Dbax129]

Fall river elk? I'd give him a call if he wanted. That's where I will be. Cant hurt right?

[idahohuntr]

Nobody is suppressing him...he hasn't produced anything but cheap talk...that is what is frustrating.  It's time for him to do something or shut his mouth.  Can anyone tell me why he hasn't already collected samples from elk? 

[GBoyd]

I don't understand this argument. All they're asking for is samples from elk. Why not give it to them?

Right now they're just getting started on the study. When they've finished the study and presented preliminary data, then we can argue about it. If previous studies haven't found leptospirosis, then most likely this study won't either. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be repeated.

Wait until the man does his work, then you can criticize his methods. There's no point criticizing him now.

[dreamunelk]

http://jcm.asm.org/content/early/2014/10/27/JCM.02276-14.abstract

I think we've got the right mechanic 

 

The live stock industry has been dealing with this for a long time and spent a lot of money trying to figure out.  Peer reviewed science is what we should be learning from.  Not conspiracy theories or self proclaimed experts who want to conduct studies that are not subject to peer review.

First of all, Dr. More is as far from a "self-proclaimed expert" as can be. He's recognized the world over as an expert in his field. Secondly, he's not asking for no peer review. He's asking to conduct studies which the WDFW has refused to conduct. Don't buy into the BS of the department cheerleader in here who thinks that the WDFW can do no wrong. They have consistently avoided doing any testing for agricultural chemicals in their toxicologies, admittedly. And, just because this looks like the same disease that affect domestic stock, doesn't mean it's so. The WDFW has known about this problem for over 20 years. The fact is that they have no conclusive evidence that this is the same disease as found affecting domestic livestock.

Please provide proof that he is an expert.  A simple Google Scholar search does not provide much.
Where  is his study proposal? 
What protocols is he using?
Why does he refuse to follow established scientific procedures?

On this web site peer reviewed science is presented.  Yet, you don't want to except it, why?

A search of terms used in the papers and in material available from WDFW web site as well a search of citations provides a lot of information.  Please prove to us that this is all wrong or junk science as some proclaim.

Yes, Mr. Mora did his dissertation on leptospirosis in 1978.   A lot has changed since then. But, even then a study proposal that was peer reviewed was required.

Many want to link two issues into one.  Hoof disease and spraying are two different issues.  The anitgun and antihunting crowd do this all the time.  Sad that hunters stoop to the same level. 

The department cheerleader?  Really?  You have to resort to insults to prove your point?  What information have you provided, other than opinions that are not be based on science or follow the simple rules of critical reasoning?

To close this reply please provide proof that the Journal of Clinical Microbiology prints junk science and how many times has Dr. Mora been published in it or other professional publications?






 

[Coastal_native]

From my perspective, with much respect to the WDFW for the level of responsibility they're entrusted with, there is so much hunter distrust and general lack of satisfaction towards the department, that people (many) are more willing to trust a private citizen than the state's game department.  That's a problem worth addressing. 

[pianoman9701]

Dreamunelk, Jon Gosch has the specifics on Boone Mora, although he was with the CDC for I believe 24 years specializing in zoonosis, specifically leptospirosis. While he was there, he correctly identified leptospirosis for the CDC around the world. In one case, he was reading a paper about an unidentified illness in Central America and from his desk in Atlanta correctly identified leptospira bacteria as the culprit because of the symptoms cited in the paper. Of the symptoms present were muscle aches and atrophy, especially in the calf and leg muscles. What has led him to believe that leptospirosis is the culprit is hoof disease is the tendency for the affected elk to be far less active than unaffected animals. The hoof deformities, he theorizes, could be from this inactivity as the hooves don't wear like those of more active, unaffected elk because the animals lie down or remain immobile because of the pain in their legs. Indeed, affected elk have shown severe atrophy in the affected limbs.

The questions of the experts at WDFW come in to play when some are hired guns for herbicide manufacturers. Whether or not this has affected their objectivity, the mere appearance of impropriety is present. Dr. Fairbrother works for Exponent, Inc. Exponent defends chemical companies in liability lawsuits regarding claims stemming from exposure to herbicides, specifically Atrazine and Round-Up. The possible connection between herbicides and hoof disease is that both of these substances have been shown in studies by independent scientists to, among many other things, affect immune systems. Further clouding the objectivity of the WDFW's research is the fact that they've refused to look at this as a possibility by testing the elk for these herbicides when they've performed toxicologies. University of California, Berkeley, professor Tyrone Hayes has done extensive research on Atrazine linking it to myriad human health problems and also specifically, the decline and deformation of amphibians in agricultural areas. He's been followed, harassed, and his research has been put into question by none other than Exponent, Inc as a representative of the Atrazine manufacturer, Syngeta.

No one has said that leptospirosis is the cause of hoof disease, including Dr. Mora. No one has said that there is a cuasitive relationship between herbicides and hoof disease. However, without observation of live specimens or testing for residual herbicidal chemicals in the organs, it can't be ruled out. This is why so many of us have a problem with how the WDFW has gone forward with the disease (not to mention their inaction for almost 20 years after learning about it). You compare the proposed connection of herbicides to hoof disease as something the anti-hunters do. I would suggest strongly that if the WDFW had taken the steps to rule out the presence of these chemicals in affected elk and accepted Dr. Mora's generous offer of assistance to study our elk with regards to his expertise, then we'd be able to rule out a connection between the two. In lieu of their studies on those chemicals or their cooperation with Dr. Mora, the question for many will remain. You may not believe there's any connection. Without the science to rule it out, you don't know any better than I.

I'll remove my cheerleader comment. But it's pertinent to note that almost regardless of the topic, that member always chimes in on the side of the WDFW.