setting the record straight

[longrangehunter338]

Seems a lot of people are confused about my name longrangehunter338. It means I backpack hunt and the ruger guide gun in 338 is what I enjoy shooting. YES ITS TRUE I posted a thread about attractant recipes for deer and elk. DID I USE OR MAKE "wet cob" nope. The two videos are of CONDITION WILD DEER. I'm not sure if they play golf at all (GOLF COURSE DEER)

If someone would explain to me how this whole baiting thing works I would appreciate it since I am apparently have the wrong idea with just throwing out some corn or hay or salt lick or wet cob. By the responses there is much more that is involved.

Thanks

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b15Xmru8FHE

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCYQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DST_BZtu3G4U&ei=McaFVL72Dc6pogTS_YHgAQ&usg=AFQjCNGopjqFsu_glCuZpIEXxw0GPLoVxQ&sig2=v1PmZWM6_YA60WrMC-CSxQ

[Bigshooter]

    

[idahohuntr]

LR338: I'm no baiting expert by any means and I came from a state where no baiting is allowed.  I think like many who do not bait I was initially of the opinion that it is wrong and not fair chase.  I completely understand those who are not familiar with baiting and who are quick to dismiss it as a slam dunk hunt...I was one of those people up until a few years ago.

While some of those youtube videos are interesting, I would say unless you have pretty much an entire community that feeds and habituates animals, baiting for the purpose of hunting never conditions animals to behavior like that.  Also, if the perception is that baiting can be effective if you pull over to the side of the road and dump a box of apples out...it isn't.  I would agree guys that do stuff like that are slobs...regulation that restricted that kind of behavior I would 100% support.

For most hunters though, baiting requires a lot of work and a lot of skill to be effective.  You still have to bait where animals are at, you have to place it where they are comfortable feeding, and have a pretty good understanding of how they seasonally use the habitat where you might bait.  Once you figure that out, now you must determine how you will position a stand or blind using existing cover, wind direction, game trails, etc. 

When you start baiting it must be a food the animals will eat, you usually have to be pretty consistent in providing feed as well.  This sounds simple but takes a lot of work and trial and error. 

Now, once you've done all the homework and setup your blind and applied feed you may start to see some results.  What you will find is that deer are very, very cautious at bate sites.  They do not approach anything like the youtube videos...they are very cautious, probably far more alert than if there were no bait site.  Once they come into the bait you still have all of the challenges any hunter would...get you bow drawn, or gun up or whatever without the animal detecting you, make a good shot etc.  Winds change, they see you move, they are gone.  Nothing about baiting reduces the senses or ability of game to escape.  You are still hunting very intelligent, wild animals.

A lot of guys, myself included, get pictures of nice bucks and sometimes post them.  I think it gives folks a false sense of how "easy" or "fair" baiting is.  A ton of work and skill goes into getting those pictures and many times you will notice that the pictures are either at night or during a part of the year when season is closed...this gets back to my point about animals being intelligent and baiting not reducing their ability to elude hunters!  This is not to say baiting doesn't work sometimes...my experience has been every once in a while you can get a decent buck to show in the last few minutes of waning light.  Guys that can hunt during the rut have the advantage that does (which are typically always more visible and easy to find...bait or not) will have bucks accompanying them.

I hope this gives you a little more perspective on baiting.  Overall, it is nothing like what is depicted in the youtube videos IMO.  I'm sure many others can give you some different perspectives on this subject as well.   

[BULLBLASTER]

  what idahohntr said. Explains it very well.

[jackelope]

I agree with everything that idahohntr said. I have tens of thousands of trail cam pictures from a couple of baited camera sites, most of which are at night. Constant upkeep of the site is required. Lots of hours in the stand or the blind, which by the way, if you think that's "easy" you've got it all wrong. Maybe it's not physically as difficult as backpack hunting, but it kills me mentally. I can't stand to sit in 1 place for that long.
With all that said, I've never hunted over bait. I sat in a blind with a friend a few weeks ago(unarmed). I lasted 2 hours then I had to quit. I was all out of patience.  I've got a lot of respect for the guy who has the mental capacity and commitment to sit in a blind or tree stand for that long to make it happen. I do hunt out of my backpack and I put a bunch of miles in on foot every year. I just really enjoy the trail cam pictures I get and if they help someone get a great animal, then I'm all the more pleased. We've got a few of the animals killed that I've had on camera, but never while hunting over the bait site. It's not that I'm against it. It's just not my preferred style of hunting.

[LeviD1]

I bait at one of my treestands and the deer are ridiculously cautious. They start to come in and stop at the treeline and look around sometimes for up to 5 minutes. They are stupid quiet walking in also. I usually always hear deer before I ever see them but at my property I bought this year, when they come into the food I never hear them and they just appear from thin air. I have treestands with safety rails on them cause I feel they are safer so with a bow and when they just show up I then have to try and stand up which sometimes the stand makes noise and the smallest sound gets their attention, then get my bow drawn back. Almost all of my buck pictures are at night except when it was rifle season, then they were running around all day long....... sometimes you sit all day without even seeing a doe. I also like to feed cause i like to try and keep my deer extra healthly even if i dont get one. I want all the does to have fawns and all the bucks to grow big in hopes i will someday see one in daylight. I have a lot of fun checking my cams to.Has anyone thought how it would affect the economy if they banned baiting also? Personally I just dont put out feed during hunting season. I like to put it out all year long and all my money is spent locally. Just on mineral and feed I probably spend $300 a year and then I probably spend another $800 just on the gas going to put it out and to check my cams. If only 1000 other people do that which I bet its more but for perspective sakes, that's $1,100,000 they will effectively remove from the economy. That's a lot of money that they will be taking from mostly small businesses and farmers. Also it allows my wife to deer hunt and not have to walk all around to see animals because she will never be able to elk hunt with me as we hike for miles and she was born with a condition that prevents her from doing so. Also baiting allows us to wait a minute and see if that doe that comes in has a yearling with her trailing behind. Even during late season I do not like to shoot does that have fawns, I feel like fawns arent very aware and they need their mother to have better odds of survival.

[vandeman17]

LR338: I'm no baiting expert by any means and I came from a state where no baiting is allowed.  I think like many who do not bait I was initially of the opinion that it is wrong and not fair chase.  I completely understand those who are not familiar with baiting and who are quick to dismiss it as a slam dunk hunt...I was one of those people up until a few years ago.

While some of those youtube videos are interesting, I would say unless you have pretty much an entire community that feeds and habituates animals, baiting for the purpose of hunting never conditions animals to behavior like that.  Also, if the perception is that baiting can be effective if you pull over to the side of the road and dump a box of apples out...it isn't.  I would agree guys that do stuff like that are slobs...regulation that restricted that kind of behavior I would 100% support.

For most hunters though, baiting requires a lot of work and a lot of skill to be effective.  You still have to bait where animals are at, you have to place it where they are comfortable feeding, and have a pretty good understanding of how they seasonally use the habitat where you might bait.  Once you figure that out, now you must determine how you will position a stand or blind using existing cover, wind direction, game trails, etc. 

When you start baiting it must be a food the animals will eat, you usually have to be pretty consistent in providing feed as well.  This sounds simple but takes a lot of work and trial and error. 

Now, once you've done all the homework and setup your blind and applied feed you may start to see some results.  What you will find is that deer are very, very cautious at bate sites.  They do not approach anything like the youtube videos...they are very cautious, probably far more alert than if there were no bait site.  Once they come into the bait you still have all of the challenges any hunter would...get you bow drawn, or gun up or whatever without the animal detecting you, make a good shot etc.  Winds change, they see you move, they are gone.  Nothing about baiting reduces the senses or ability of game to escape.  You are still hunting very intelligent, wild animals.

A lot of guys, myself included, get pictures of nice bucks and sometimes post them.  I think it gives folks a false sense of how "easy" or "fair" baiting is.  A ton of work and skill goes into getting those pictures and many times you will notice that the pictures are either at night or during a part of the year when season is closed...this gets back to my point about animals being intelligent and baiting not reducing their ability to elude hunters!  This is not to say baiting doesn't work sometimes...my experience has been every once in a while you can get a decent buck to show in the last few minutes of waning light.  Guys that can hunt during the rut have the advantage that does (which are typically always more visible and easy to find...bait or not) will have bucks accompanying them.

I hope this gives you a little more perspective on baiting.  Overall, it is nothing like what is depicted in the youtube videos IMO.  I'm sure many others can give you some different perspectives on this subject as well.

Should make this a sticky so that whenever this topic comes up, we could refer it to this explanation.

[idahohuntr]

LR - I think you are touching largely on the issue that there are bad apples in every bunch...slobs, trespassers, poor marksmen etc.  If you use the bad apples to represent the entire group...no collection of people will ever look good: baiters, hunters, anglers, police officers, priests, lawyers, doctors, no one group is immune from a few ruining the image of many.  I agree that baiting is not what we should be focused on collectively...WDFW confirms that they have no biological concerns on this issue, it really isn't on non-hunters radars either.  I respect those who oppose baiting and feel it is not fair-chase; I disagree with their assessment but appreciate their passion for wanting to make sure hunting is always conducted in a fair chase environment.

[BULLBLASTER]

One reason that i use bait at a fw of my whitetail spots is that they are relatively small to very small parvels of land and the bait gives me a chance to bring the deer the extra 20 yards onto the correct property. Instead of me watching them just past the line. So i guess you could say i am altering (or trying to alter) their travel paterns to make them huntable.
I agree there are bigger issues like garbage.
I see no possible way that 2 points being shot and left to waste has anything at all to do with bait. I will add that most people tha i know that baitdeer will pass on many legal animals in search of a older age class deer.

[LeviD1]

The whole trash thing is a little off subject I think. I bait but have never littered in my life cause I think its ridiculous. To me your post sounds like people who vait are the ones who leave trash everywhere. I have personally seen people who aren't baiting throw their candy bar trash on the ground and at my parents property were we dont have feed out had people hunting out of our stands on private property (trespassing) leaving garbage at the bottum of our stands and also cutting out safety harness straps to what appears to be just for "fun". While elk hunting (not sitting in a stand) I pack out trash all the time from out hiking around. So to relate baiting and littering is irrelevant I think and off topic.

[LeviD1]

  to bullblaster.

[pd]

LR338: I'm no baiting expert by any means and I came from a state where no baiting is allowed.  I think like many who do not bait I was initially of the opinion that it is wrong and not fair chase.  I completely understand those who are not familiar with baiting and who are quick to dismiss it as a slam dunk hunt...I was one of those people up until a few years ago.

While some of those youtube videos are interesting, I would say unless you have pretty much an entire community that feeds and habituates animals, baiting for the purpose of hunting never conditions animals to behavior like that.  Also, if the perception is that baiting can be effective if you pull over to the side of the road and dump a box of apples out...it isn't.  I would agree guys that do stuff like that are slobs...regulation that restricted that kind of behavior I would 100% support.

For most hunters though, baiting requires a lot of work and a lot of skill to be effective.  You still have to bait where animals are at, you have to place it where they are comfortable feeding, and have a pretty good understanding of how they seasonally use the habitat where you might bait.  Once you figure that out, now you must determine how you will position a stand or blind using existing cover, wind direction, game trails, etc. 

When you start baiting it must be a food the animals will eat, you usually have to be pretty consistent in providing feed as well.  This sounds simple but takes a lot of work and trial and error. 

Now, once you've done all the homework and setup your blind and applied feed you may start to see some results.  What you will find is that deer are very, very cautious at bate sites.  They do not approach anything like the youtube videos...they are very cautious, probably far more alert than if there were no bait site.  Once they come into the bait you still have all of the challenges any hunter would...get you bow drawn, or gun up or whatever without the animal detecting you, make a good shot etc.  Winds change, they see you move, they are gone.  Nothing about baiting reduces the senses or ability of game to escape.  You are still hunting very intelligent, wild animals.

A lot of guys, myself included, get pictures of nice bucks and sometimes post them.  I think it gives folks a false sense of how "easy" or "fair" baiting is.  A ton of work and skill goes into getting those pictures and many times you will notice that the pictures are either at night or during a part of the year when season is closed...this gets back to my point about animals being intelligent and baiting not reducing their ability to elude hunters!  This is not to say baiting doesn't work sometimes...my experience has been every once in a while you can get a decent buck to show in the last few minutes of waning light.  Guys that can hunt during the rut have the advantage that does (which are typically always more visible and easy to find...bait or not) will have bucks accompanying them.

I hope this gives you a little more perspective on baiting.  Overall, it is nothing like what is depicted in the youtube videos IMO.  I'm sure many others can give you some different perspectives on this subject as well.

Should make this a sticky so that whenever this topic comes up, we could refer it to this explanation.

Agreed.  Well said, Idaho Hunter.

To the OP, perhaps now you have come to see what baiting is and is not?  From this new vantage point, can you understand why many of us find the WDFW proposals to blanket ban baiting as being both hypocritical and ignorant?

[pd]

My concept of baiting is this- guy dumps corn, apples, hay, salt lick, molasses, buck jam, peanut butter on the ground near ground blind or tree stand and waits for the deer.

No.

While that might be true for some, for me and for those I know "baiting" is an opportunity to draw the target species in for photographs.  That is, the "bait" goes hand-in-hand with trail cameras; bait is a means to an end.  Believe me, if it were as simple as "dump food, wait, shoot stupid animal" then everybody would do it.  That is not the case at all.

I would happily show you the ropes, if you are interested.  I am always looking for somebody to split the fuel costs.

[BULLBLASTER]

One reason that i use bait at a fw of my whitetail spots is that they are relatively small to very small parvels of land and the bait gives me a chance to bring the deer the extra 20 yards onto the correct property. Instead of me watching them just past the line. So i guess you could say i am altering (or trying to alter) their travel paterns to make them huntable.
I agree there are bigger issues like garbage.
I see no possible way that 2 points being shot and left to waste has anything at all to do with bait. I will add that most people tha i know that baitdeer will pass on many legal animals in search of a older age class deer.

I mentioned the two 2 pts being shot as a response to the possible response that someone might have brought up that baiting deer would bring them in close which would allow positive identification.

honestly i feel that the person shooting 2 point bucks and leaving them doesnt mut much into hunting in general. He probably wouldnt take the time amd put in the effort to actually run bait sites and hunt them.
As for how i bait, it starts in the spring (winter really) when i am shed hunting. If i find sheds or heavily used areas i will use salt there and see what types of animals there are. If there are animals that i would like to hunt i will usually add cams to try and see where the animal comes from and goes. Them closer to season i will drop some feed hopefully in his home range. I do t think it will drastically change patterns because i have had baits missed by a target buck but had him all over a bait 100 yards away. Sometimes it takes many attempts at finding a place he will consistently come to and feed. One buck took me 3 years to kill with the aid of bait.
As for smaller properties i do the same thing but have no options of moving things usually. I will find the best place on that land and hope there are mature animals there. If not i wont hunt it. I dont feed all year. Only august till im tagged out. And even then usually wont feed during rifle season.

[runamuk]

You do realize there are non hunters who put out trail cams and bait because trail cams are super popular trendy right now?  Humans are voyeurs we like to watch and getting into nature and watching them be themselves through webcams and such is not just something hunters do. 

I have close encounters all the time with deer and I mean close 10 feet and under close.  I even have these during hunting season just not with anything legal to shoot.  Bait or no bait doesnt change this.  I dont bait cant afford it.  When I lived in the capitol forest I had a small apple orchard it always brought deer in even had a buck who would have been legal and I would have had my first deer if he had shown his face during daylight but nope he switched to nocturnal.  A gal a mile from me had an orchard and a deer breadline every night the same time you could see her feeding bread to the deer over her fence by hand, some nice bucks.  Hunting season rolled and suddenly all you would see in the breadline was does.  Those were very habituated deer and yet they were not penned they were free to be deer and oddly enough they acted just like the ones up in the forest 100 yards behind her house. 

Unless you raise them by hand from infancy and they bond with humans wild animals tent to remain wild.  Farm raised animals are acclimated to humans from birth and they are fenced so while they are still wild and that is often encouraged they are still more acclimated to people than wild animals ever will be even baited and hand fed by the crazy deer lady.  Yes you can get outliers that odd animal that decides humans are better than a life of freedom, that is how we got domestic dogs, cats, horses, and any other domestic animal you can think of.

[jackelope]

It is not that I agree or disagree with baiting. I was originally ticked off from the thread that was calling all hunters to write the wdfw and tell them you disagree with the legislation banning baiting and if you are not against that legislation you are an anti-hunter.

You sure have a funny way of not disagreeing with baiting.

Pretty sure that other guy who started the thread you reference got almost the same response as yours.
Let it go.

[jackelope]

Agree to disagree on this issue. 

Agreeing to disagree on whether to agree or disagree?
Or not..........

[runamuk]

Agree to disagree on this issue. 

Agreeing to disagree on whether to agree or disagree?
Or not..........

Who's on first?

[Netminder01]

Agree to disagree on this issue. 

Agreeing to disagree on whether to agree or disagree?
Or not..........

Maybe the record (subject of this thread) is not set.  Sure seems as of LR33 is just trying to stoke the flames to get a reaction which at the least, would be a predictable one from the majority of Hunt WA members.

[bowhunterwa87]

Best reason I can see for baiting would be youth and disabled hunters who cannot get out in the way that they wish they could

[jasnt]

What about the guy that owns just a little chunk of land and surrounded by huge farms and large timbered private land.
a food plot/creating cover/ providing water / minrels/salt is not enough when your surrounded by un huntable alfalfa fields and no access timber plots.

See, your too smart for your own good. They should just pay the high access fee for the timber land or trespass on the private farmland.

Actually this is a point that I have been wanting to make.
These small parcels of huntable land are often surrounded by private land or areas that may not always be safe to shoot, BUT with proper positioning of a bait pile and stand, a shot can be taken in a safe direction. This is something that everyone should encourage in the name of safety.

that is the exact situation in in. North is homes,east are homes and farms, south is a safe shot but no access,same with most west shots and NO access! I have provided the above and a bag of corn or 2 once a week. After 5years now of year round investment in getting some ok bucks and does with very healthy fawns. The best bucks still spend most their times safe in the alfalfa fields or timber and 95% of my deer traffic is after shooting light has ended. Then by late buck the deer seem to disperse. I hunt public land for late season when I can afford to.

that timbered land is private property, not a timber company. It is posted no hunting like everything else in the area

[Skinnyguts]

Agree to disagree about baiting. I have spent a lot of time in the woods and have watched deer and elk just stand around with more than enough time to shoot any of them without any bait. This argument will go on forever without any change of opinion. I will never use bait and those that wish to use bait have at it. Topics like this just seem to breed discontent with few offering pros and cons on the issue and lead to just people getting ugly with each other.

The reason I think this topic breeds discontent is because it is purely emotional. Don't ban it just because it tugs your heart strings. If you don't want to ban it but don't do it, why argue about it. People are justifiably getting mad because their method of hunting is potentially getting axed only because some bleeding heart "hunters" don't think it is ethical. Your offense= you don't like it, my defense= I like it. It pisses me off that the wdfw would even consider banning anything based on the squeaky wheels emotions.

[Fowlweather25]

I agree with everything that idahohntr said. I have tens of thousands of trail cam pictures from a couple of baited camera sites, most of which are at night. Constant upkeep of the site is required. Lots of hours in the stand or the blind, which by the way, if you think that's "easy" you've got it all wrong. Maybe it's not physically as difficult as backpack hunting, but it kills me mentally. I can't stand to sit in 1 place for that long.
With all that said, I've never hunted over bait. I sat in a blind with a friend a few weeks ago(unarmed). I lasted 2 hours then I had to quit. I was all out of patience.  I've got a lot of respect for the guy who has the mental capacity and commitment to sit in a blind or tree stand for that long to make it happen. I do hunt out of my
backpack and I put a bunch of miles in on foot every year. I just really enjoy the trail cam pictures I get and if they help someone get a great animal, then I'm all the more pleased. We've got a few of the animals killed that I've had on camera, but never while hunting over the bait site. It's not that I'm against it. It's just not my preferred style of hunting.

I 100% agree x2

[jackelope]

Topics like this just seem to breed discontent with few offering pros and cons on the issue and lead to just people getting ugly with each other.

You've started 2 of them in 2 days. You are fueling the unnecessary fire at this point. Don't promote taking away from fellow hunters based on your own preferences. I couldn't care less how you hunt as long as it's legal. Rather than starting more threads to "set the record straight", let it go and support your fellow hunters before there is nothing left to support.

[Bean Counter]

If you use the bad apples to represent the entire group...no collection of people will ever look good: baiters, hunters, anglers, police officers, priests, lawyers, doctors, no one group is immune from a few ruining the image of many.

Hey! 

why did you leave accountants off that list?

[mfswallace]

Topics like this just seem to breed discontent with few offering pros and cons on the issue and lead to just people getting ugly with each other.

You've started 2 of them in 2 days. You are fueling the unnecessary fire at this point. Don't promote taking away from fellow hunters based on your own preferences. I couldn't care less how you hunt as long as it's legal. Rather than starting more threads to "set the record straight", let it go and support your fellow hunters before there is nothing left to support.

With all due respect, I started discussions, asking for an explanation for why baiting is so important. The ugliness i refer to are the comments telling me to shut up, im an idiot for talking about this, since I have not lived in this state my entire life I have no say in this issue. Emotion deals with every issue like it or not, emotion is the very reason an issue becomes an issue. Not one person bothered to quibble with words and tell me there is a difference between baiting deer and feeding deer. Bait is something you place on the ground right before season to bring in the deer. feeding is what is taking place from the sound of it with all these trail cams and limited hunting areas and scouting and the emplacement of stands and blinds in the right way to get the best shooting angle.

Everything that is voted on is based on emotion, how else do you think 594 passed since those that voted for it obviously did not think about it. Maybe just maybe I starred up (pissed off) enough emotion on here that more hunters will get involved and let the wdfw know that banning baiting of deer and elk is a bad idea.

Baiting is important because it is one more legal tool that hunters of differentiating status can use to experience the thrill of the entire experience we call hunting!

Hence the tread asking others to write WDFW to let them know baiting is important to us as hunters!!

 You will never get it apparently, no matter how well it is explained, until you experience it. 

 Try it    Find someone here that does it and ask to help 

[vandeman17]

What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results.

Some people just don't get the underlying argument here and keep talking about it when it is obvious they have their mind made up and have NO CLUE what it is everyone else is trying to get across to them. Might as well cut the losses and lock this thread because it will go nowhere 

[Curly]

It pisses me off that the wdfw would even consider banning anything based on the squeaky wheels emotions.

They need to quit taking away opportunity.  One of these days they'll wonder why license sales are so low and so few youngsters are taking up the sport and so many older guys have gave it up or hunt out of state exclusively.  WDFW is doing a good job of irritating people who used to support them.

[vandeman17]

What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results.

Some people just don't get the underlying argument here and keep talking about it when it is obvious they have their mind made up and have NO CLUE what it is everyone else is trying to get across to them. Might as well cut the losses and lock this thread because it will go nowhere 

Oh gosh, hey guy I just said I understand it is important to keep this method of hunting. I'm indifferent as to this method.

Not trying to get in an argument but you have changed your tune multiple times. Just calling it as I see it

[Bean Counter]

Not sure what the point of this thread is or was. Are we arguing about arguing? 

[billythekidrock]

What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results.

Some people just don't get the underlying argument here and keep talking about it when it is obvious they have their mind made up and have NO CLUE what it is everyone else is trying to get across to them. Might as well cut the losses and lock this thread because it will go nowhere 

Oh gosh, hey guy I just said I understand it is important to keep this method of hunting. I'm indifferent as to this method.

It certainly does not come across as indifferent. It appears that you are dead set against it. Then you change your tune.

[mfswallace]

Let's just delete this whole mess 

[Igor]

 

[Netminder01]

 

Hilariously accurate.