Baiting: A possible solution?

[bobcat]

What's wrong with the one proposed option that makes it illegal "if the volume of bait exceeds 10 gallons"?  That rule is easily understood and easily enforceable, especially when the person baiting is putting out a truckload of apples each time.

[JimmyHoffa]

What's wrong with the one proposed option that makes it illegal "if the volume of bait exceeds 10 gallons"?  That rule is easily understood and easily enforceable, especially when the person baiting is putting out a truckload of apples each time.

Ten gallons isn't necessarily a lot of bait.  A bag of corn or alfalfa pellets is between 7-8 gallons.  Might be fine for a couple days, but if you bait for a week's worth of time for your cams that restriction might leave more days unbaited than baited. 

[zike]

Elkstuffer something I learned over the years. Never argue with idiots as they will do nothing but bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

[lokidog]

What's wrong with the one proposed option that makes it illegal "if the volume of bait exceeds 10 gallons"?  That rule is easily understood and easily enforceable, especially when the person baiting is putting out a truckload of apples each time.

Ten gallons isn't necessarily a lot of bait.  A bag of corn or alfalfa pellets is between 7-8 gallons.  Might be fine for a couple days, but if you bait for a week's worth of time for your cams that restriction might leave more days unbaited than baited.

This may be true, but what is the biggest complaint we have been hearing about?  Truckloads of apples altering the natural behavior of animals in an area?  A quantity limit would address this issue.  Yes, it would make the person who does not live near the property travel more or bait less, but there are other negatives already to not living near where you hunt.  If this is a problem, hunt closer to where you live.

From  my narrow experience, I can throw three or four apples on a trail in front of my camera, and get an idea of what is there.  If I do this a few times, the deer will come look to see if there is anything there and then move on to their other regular food after eating them or looking for them.  I agree that bait should not be used to keep animals in an area they do not normally hang out out.  I do not bait to "feed" the deer, during hunting season anyways, I do "feed" the deer later in the winter, but then I use quality pellets to give them a protien and carb boost during the time of year that they need a little more help (here on the island anyways) and I still don't supply enough to be their only food source, though I would feed more if I could afford to do so.  But if it is indeed used for getting a still shot at an animal or positioning one in a more ideal location, then a ten gallon limit should not be a problem.  If a person is using alfalfa bales, the rule could be written something like ten gallons of feed or a "standard" bale of xyz dimensions.  Either of these is pretty easy to estimate when spread out on the ground by anyone that is familiar with a bale of hay or a bucket of apples.  If LEOs can't figure out how to estimate this in the field, w/o "raking it up" then maybe they need to go back to warden school (I met one once that could not identify a drake pintail in eclipse plumage that probably needed to go back to bird ID class, fortunately, he knew his limitations and was polite about asking what kind of duck it was    ). 

Elkstuffer something I learned over the years. Never argue with idiots as they will do nothing but bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Zike, you need to... oh wait never mind, not going to argue with you....   

[fishngamereaper]

Elkstuffer something I learned over the years. Never argue with idiots as they will do nothing but bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Wow... Now there's a mature statement. Really sheds some light on the whole topic.

[BULLBLASTER]

What's wrong with the one proposed option that makes it illegal "if the volume of bait exceeds 10 gallons"?  That rule is easily understood and easily enforceable, especially when the person baiting is putting out a truckload of apples each time.

how would this be enforced with a compressed alfalfa bail. Sub 10 gallons when banded but as soon as the bands are cut it expands greatly and after being kicked aroud by deer will never fit into a 10 gallon container again. Also what about the stems or remains of alfalfa that the deer dont eat? Will it coun t toward the 10 gallon?

[Curly]

Loki has a great idea:

  But if it is indeed used for getting a still shot at an animal or positioning one in a more ideal location, then a ten gallon limit should not be a problem.  If a person is using alfalfa bales, the rule could be written something like ten gallons of feed or a "standard" bale of xyz dimensions.  Either of these is pretty easy to estimate when spread out on the ground by anyone that is familiar with a bale of hay or a bucket of apples.

Ten gallons or standard bale. 

[TommyH]

Tag

[bobcat]

What's wrong with the one proposed option that makes it illegal "if the volume of bait exceeds 10 gallons"?  That rule is easily understood and easily enforceable, especially when the person baiting is putting out a truckload of apples each time.

how would this be enforced with a compressed alfalfa bail. Sub 10 gallons when banded but as soon as the bands are cut it expands greatly and after being kicked aroud by deer will never fit into a 10 gallon container again. Also what about the stems or remains of alfalfa that the deer dont eat? Will it coun t toward the 10 gallon?

I don't think it could be strictly enforced, and that's what I like about it. I think they wouldn't bother anybody unless it was very obvious that they were well over the ten gallon limit.

[JimmyHoffa]

I agree Lokidog, but a pick up truck bed can hold about 400 gallons of apples for the short box.  I was thinking more along the lines of 20 gals for packing in for cameras once a week.  But when I think about things like the 35 gal trash can or a 55 gal drum, those don't really stand out in my mind as being excessive.

[BULLBLASTER]

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I don't think it could be strictly enforced, and that's what I like about it. I think they wouldn't bother anybody unless it was very obvious that they were well over the ten gallon limit.

why would anybody want to put a law on the books that is admittadly unenforceable by the letter of the law. Make it cut and dry. I like the reg idea for gmus or groups of gmus... address the problem while leaving everyone else alone. 

[BULLBLASTER]

I modified the quotes in the post above to make it easier to post off my phone... i dont know how to scroll down in the text box. 

[grundy53]

Or just regulate it to a certain time frame. GMU XXX will only have baiting allowed from the month(s) of September to  October, all bait must be removed by Nov. 1st to protect migrating animals. Or just don't change it at all.

Now we're getting somewhere. Point restrictions, permits, and quotas are all GMU specific. Why not this too.

[bearpaw]

So Bearpaw, you think it is OK to limit bait volume to 8 cubic feet but think saying two five gallon buckets is too hard to figure out?  How the He... are they supposed to measure 8 cubic feet?  It seems to me that two five gallon buckets would be a lot easier to estimate if not actually "raking it up".     It seems that you are just set on getting "your way" and not really taking other people's opinions into consideration.....

Please read all my posts in this topic as I try to find what will work for everyone and then please ask yourself if you were off base with this post. 

[coachcw]

I haven't read every post but has any one mentioned the pros on supplement that baiters  put down ? I'd have to think the extra minerals and feed would over improve the health of deer and elk.  I a guy is putting down hundreds of pounds of feed to harvest one animal it seems the overall health of the remaining group would benefit ?