Every wonder why the big elk are gone by the time you finally draw a tag?

[Jonathan_S]

Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?

How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many  general season hunters horn hunt first?

What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?

[cbond3318]

Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?

How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many  general season hunters horn hunt first?

What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?

I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set  Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.

My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...

[Jonathan_S]

Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?

How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many  general season hunters horn hunt first?

What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?

I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set  Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.

My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...

I agree with your point about bull quality having less to do with it however...

Applying for a tag, legally and ethically having the hunt of a lifetime and settling for nothing less than an old warrior bull is different than killing wintering bulls for profit.  If all they wanted was antlers to hang on the wall they could go buy them from Louie and not have to worry about applying for a tag and spending money on the hunt.

[cbond3318]

Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?

How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many  general season hunters horn hunt first?

What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?

I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set  Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.

My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...

I agree with your point about bull quality having less to do with it however...

Applying for a tag, legally and ethically having the hunt of a lifetime and settling for nothing less than an old warrior bull is different than killing wintering bulls for profit.  If all they wanted was antlers to hang on the wall they could go buy them from Louie and not have to worry about applying for a tag and spending money on the hunt.

I assume in the most basic of forms these guys have a "tag" so to speak, what they do is "legal" (there are always the exceptions) and ethics are in the eye of the beholder.... what is the difference? Time waited between tags/kills?

[bobcat]

The difference is they have no limit and a year around season.

[Rainier10]

Nice cape job, exactly what I would do with a dink bull like that.

Where is that sarcasm emoticon?

[Tbar]

The op  stated all the big bulls are gone by the time you, me,  himself draw a tag. The reality is a big bull was shot (or multiple) and it's the same song and dance (and whining). I don't see decreased opportunity, success, or post season ratios to support the claim.  You're absolutely validated in anyone's anger and outrage about market hunting both for meat and antlers (although wasted animals makes it more egregious).
What I see in this thread is an Indian (I'm assuming) in a picture with a bull and an opportunity to start another bashing thread.  Mission accomplished.  I would and will contact the tribal government of Yakama and  express my thoughts and feelings that they could be more active on the management side of hunting.  I don't know or think it'll change but at least I can say I tried.   Nobody should support a unregulated hunt, nobody.

[CAMPMEAT]

Duh.  Because these are animals that are not on the reservation and there are a lot of people who pay big money and play by the rules who are screwed year after year by mismanagement.  And if you haven't seen complaints about overharvesting of deer than you aren't looking.

I know you've been out of the elk hunting game for 26 years but you don't live under a rock.

But there a 12 threads on the same subject (elk/indians) every year and maybe one on a deer. Don't forget, some guys pay $5500 for a friggin' deer in the Okanogan. I actually keep track of elk hunting all the time, as I do wolves. Not so much on deer, because I don't like the taste of deer meat. Yuck !!

I don't think it's mismanagement, I think it's the WDFW not having any say in the tribes laws. I've talked with tribal members I know and the WDFW can't do squatola to a tribal member. If a white guy gets pulled over on the rez for being drunk, the whiteman LEO has to come and arrest said drunk. I've never had the pleasure, so I'm just repeating what I was told.

[cbond3318]

The difference is they have no limit and a year around season.

And that is the drum that needs to be beat the loudest and most consistent, the rest is just whining .

[BAR C3]

Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?

Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. 

[PlateauNDN]

Soooo......is this going to be another all talk and bash thread like in years past??? Or does someone that says "they know who what where and when" going to share that info or was the intent just to stir the pot??? I'd sure like to know who's taking just the heads as that would be useful info for our l.e.o.s as that is against tribal law to waste. Unless of course the excuse is going to be the same as last time "what's the point" "nobody cares" "nothing's going to happen" and I'd say mission accomplished........

Let's see whos all talk and whos about action............

[Spawnstar]

Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?

Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. 

I don't blame everything on natives,but I have seen tribal hunters come into an area and shoot atleast a dozen Bulls and take just the heads and back straps. There is a big time difference between hunting for the tribe and pure massacre of a herd of Bulls, If that isn't pure BS I don't know what is. Go down the Columbia and look at where the natives have emptied there gill nets on the shore and let the fish just rott. Im 1/4 Indian and none of our family registers cause we don't think we're intitled to anything. and by the way if you think that bull is barely 300 your quite mistaken that bull is atleast 340ish type bull.

[BAR C3]

Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?

Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. 

I don't blame everything on natives,but I have seen tribal hunters come into an area and shoot atleast a dozen Bulls and take just the heads and back straps. There is a big time difference between hunting for the tribe and pure massacre of a herd of Bulls, If that isn't pure BS I don't know what is. Go down the Columbia and look at where the natives have emptied there gill nets on the shore and let the fish just rott. Im 1/4 Indian and none of our family registers cause we don't think we're intitled to anything. and by the way if you think that bull is barely 300 your quite mistaken that bull is atleast 340ish type bull.

Your singing an old tune on here. I've seen as many or more white guys poaching and unethical kills than Native and I'm white from the Rez. I've seen Mexicans, Asians, Russians and etc do the same, where's those haters???
Stay on point, tell me how the Indians are killing all the big bulls?

[coachcw]

That bull is well over 350 I'd say trophy !

[mfswallace]

That bull is well over 350 I'd say trophy !