Heart shot ?

[scoutdog346]

So 2 years ago i shot a mule deer in the hart with my bow late season about 1 hour b4 the sun went down.  I watched it run for about 200yards then i followed it and watched it walk for about 500 more yards. Then i watched it bed down as the sun went down.  I came back in the morning and icicles were coming out of its nose but the body was still warm. I was interested in seeing exactly where I shot it. As expected I discovered that I hit the heart with my 4 blade slick trick.  2 half inch
long gashes were on the tip of the hart and each one was about a quarter inch deep into the heart.  this seemed impossible to me but it really did happen.  does this surprise anyone that a deer can run that long with two small holes in his heart? how did the blood flow with all that pressure gone?  it ran a little bit too long to say or think that it was just nerves.  can anyone explain this or can anyone say that they've seen something like this before? 

[Romulus1297]

I had a whitetail run 100 yds without a heart 

[Jellymon]

Animals are tough. I saw a video once of a doe whitetail shot right behind the shoulder with a 50BMG at less than 100yds. She ran over 100yds with a basketball sized exit wound before dying.
I don't think 1/4" actually cuts that far into the heart, the walls are pretty thick. Sounds like you got pretty lucky to find that deer.

[RadSav]

Unlike other organs of the body the heart is actually a cardiac muscle.  Just striking the heart doesn't necessarily mean it has holes in it or that there should be massive blood loss.  Especially in the ventricle (compression) region of the heart where the muscle is thicker and stronger.  You have to break through the endocardium and reach the ventricle chambers for massive blood loss to happen at the pointed end of the heart.  That's tough if the head is dull, traveling slow or the cuts are shallow.

In that area of the heart there are no major Nodes.  Only Purkinje fibers.  So while a strike like that will effect cardiac conduction it can not shut it down like a strike to the SA node, AV nodes or the central bundles.

This shot would undoubtedly collapse the pericardium.  This effects rhythm to some extent and definitely make the animal weak.  And since the wounds would be great enough the heart will begin to work harder trying to maintain a strong flow of blood to the brain.  The pericardium usually controls the pressure around the heart so the extra blood flow does not over expand the heart.  Without it there the heart could possibly tear itself and eventually the small cuts could become bigger and more lethal.  Hard to tell without inspection if that really is what happened here.

The pointed area of the heart is not surrounded by major lung tissue either.  So suffocation would take a very long time and blood loss would be slow.

IMO, you were very smart to wait until morning to try and recover this animal.  Deer likely died from either cardiogenic shock from the damaged Purkinje fibers and damaged pericardium, or hypothermia.  Neither being extremely fast killers.  But by backing off and waiting he should have gone without undue stress and with minimal discomfort.  By far the best of the possible scenarios under this unfortunate situation.  And much more humane than the average death in the wild.

[scoutdog346]

Thanks a lot.  That was a very cool and thurough explanation.  U got me wanting to learn more about deer and elk anatomy physiology in relation to from a arrow.  My situation definitely taught me to wait longer and be more selective with what i think a good shot is. Ur information is going to help with that also. Very cool. thanks. Them wa. state mule deer sure r tough.

[Bullkllr]

I have killed 2 animals (1 elk, 1 deer) with an arrow that died super quickly- like 2 leaps and flipped over quick. I thought both were heart shots. After examining them I saw the broadhead had literally severed the aorta in each case. So thats what I aim for now.

[MLBowhunting]

Make sure your heads are sharp.  Do some research on that Radsav guy he might just know a thing or two.   

[RadSav]

I have killed 2 animals (1 elk, 1 deer) with an arrow that died super quickly- like 2 leaps and flipped over quick. I thought both were heart shots. After examining them I saw the broadhead had literally severed the aorta in each case. So thats what I aim for now.

That is really the holy grail of shots!   Hitting that aotic arch region not only severs the blood flow coming in and out but if close enough to the heart it also damages the network of autonomic nerve fibers (electrical impulse bundles).  Only way with a bow to kill faster than cutting a big hole in an artery is by instantly stopping the heart all together.  At the arch you usually do both!  Always amazes me how fast those kills are.

The wife's first bull she shot at 58 yards through the arch.  He took a couple steps to his right and then a couple steps to his left and dropped where he was standing when the arrow hit.  That spooked a cow that ran full speed straight at me.  I hit the same spot with a straight on shot at 35 yards and she went down about 15 yards later.  15 yards at a full run is quite the sight to see!

And even if you miss the network of autonomic nerve fibers the aorta is like the high pressure hose of life.  Think of the heart as a muscular hydraulic pump.  You have the high pressure out line and the lower pressure vacuum or supply line.  Put a hole in the supply line and the pump can continue to work until the fluid is drained.  Put a hole in the main pressure line and fluid is expelled almost immediately and all small arterial lines can not get the fluid they need without the pressure to overcome restrictive resistance.  In this case the brain doesn't just lose percentages of oxygen, instead it's source of oxygen is completely stopped.

I have never found a source of research that equates systolic pressure to PSI.  Wish I was smart enough to figure that out. Best I can surmise is it's maybe 2-4 psi at the aorta, but that in all honesty is a complete guess.  Surprising how much that actually is!  I remember taking a disabled person on a road hunt for archery deer back in the mid eighties.  He shot a small 2X2 blacktail that was about 8-10 yards from the truck and elevated at about 45 degrees.  Wind was light but blowing in our direction. The two blade Bear Razorhead must have taken the Aorta at peak systolic pressure and peak lung pressure as I saw a red cloud explode from the chest.  The buck tried to run, but his legs gave out before they planted a second time.  After taking care of the deer and getting back in the truck to head for home I turned the wipers on to clear the dust from the windshield.  It smeared red making visibility impossible.  Yes, that much blood mist had reached the vehicle from eight to ten yards away!  I would have not believed it had I not been witness to it myself.  Pretty crazy!

[kentrek]

I have killed 2 animals (1 elk, 1 deer) with an arrow that died super quickly- like 2 leaps and flipped over quick. I thought both were heart shots. After examining them I saw the broadhead had literally severed the aorta in each case. So thats what I aim for now.

That is really the holy grail of shots!   Hitting that aotic arch region not only severs the blood flow coming in and out but if close enough to the heart it also damages the network of autonomic nerve fibers (electrical impulse bundles). 

she went down about 15 yards later.  15 yards at a full run is quite the sight to see

I hit a cow in just the same way ! I bet she slid 5 to 7 feet after she hit the dirt

[Todd_ID]

Don't they measure blood pressure in millimeters of mercury? If so, then 120 over 80 on our blood pressure would be like 2.5 over 1.5 psi.

[DoubleJ]

I have killed 2 animals (1 elk, 1 deer) with an arrow that died super quickly- like 2 leaps and flipped over quick. I thought both were heart shots. After examining them I saw the broadhead had literally severed the aorta in each case. So thats what I aim for now.

That is really the holy grail of shots!   Hitting that aotic arch region not only severs the blood flow coming in and out but if close enough to the heart it also damages the network of autonomic nerve fibers (electrical impulse bundles).  Only way with a bow to kill faster than cutting a big hole in an artery is by instantly stopping the heart all together.  At the arch you usually do both!  Always amazes me how fast those kills are.

The wife's first bull she shot at 58 yards through the arch.  He took a couple steps to his right and then a couple steps to his left and dropped where he was standing when the arrow hit.  That spooked a cow that ran full speed straight at me.  I hit the same spot with a straight on shot at 35 yards and she went down about 15 yards later.  15 yards at a full run is quite the sight to see!

And even if you miss the network of autonomic nerve fibers the aorta is like the high pressure hose of life.  Think of the heart as a muscular hydraulic pump.  You have the high pressure out line and the lower pressure vacuum or supply line.  Put a hole in the supply line and the pump can continue to work until the fluid is drained.  Put a hole in the main pressure line and fluid is expelled almost immediately and all small arterial lines can not get the fluid they need without the pressure to overcome restrictive resistance.  In this case the brain doesn't just lose percentages of oxygen, instead it's source of oxygen is completely stopped.

I have never found a source of research that equates systolic pressure to PSI.  Wish I was smart enough to figure that out. Best I can surmise is it's maybe 2-4 psi at the aorta, but that in all honesty is a complete guess.  Surprising how much that actually is!  I remember taking a disabled person on a road hunt for archery deer back in the mid eighties.  He shot a small 2X2 blacktail that was about 8-10 yards from the truck and elevated at about 45 degrees.  Wind was light but blowing in our direction. The two blade Bear Razorhead must have taken the Aorta at peak systolic pressure and peak lung pressure as I saw a red cloud explode from the chest.  The buck tried to run, but his legs gave out before they planted a second time.  After taking care of the deer and getting back in the truck to head for home I turned the wipers on to clear the dust from the windshield.  It smeared red making visibility impossible.  Yes, that much blood mist had reached the vehicle from eight to ten yards away!  I would have not believed it had I not been witness to it myself.  Pretty crazy!

That aortic arch sure makes a mess of things when butchering though

[scoutdog346]

How does the aortic arch make a mess of things when butchering?

[RadSav]

The pressure forces blood into darn near every loose tissue in the shoulder area.  I post very few pictures of the shoulders after a good upper heart shot because every internet expert decides they need to tell me I shot it with a shotgun instead of a bow   Takes a long time to clean up the shoulders and the blood.  Almost no damage to the meat, just extremely messy!

[DoubleJ]

How does the aortic arch make a mess of things when butchering?

I had coagulated blood between every muscle layer that needed to be scraped off from the brisket to the back of the ribs on both sides.  Good news was that there was hardly any blood when gutting

[scoutdog346]

Ok i see thanks.