High strung GWP

[SW Blacktail]

This is a picture of Zeke (the freak).  He's about 1 1/2 years old now and shows no signs of mellowing out.  He's extremely hard headed and stubborn and only "listens" when he is wearing his shock collar.  I've wanted to give him away off and on over the last year or so but so far have chosen to stick with him in hopes that maybe with some help & time he'll turn into the dog I want.  He has some big shoes to fill so maybe my expectation are just too high and I'm not giving him a fair chance.  In his defense.. he's amazing to watch.. he wants to please & is extremely athletic and intensely hunts tweety birds or whatever else he winds.  Haven't put him on any birds yet, though I know I should have a long time ago..   How long do these dogs keep their puppy mentality??  Do they usually mellow out at age 2-3 if ever??  Is it a problem if he won't fetch?  How should I deal with a hard headed dog?
 My patience is wearing thin with this one.. any advice would be appreciated.

[rasbo]

Ive got a red heeler pup she was the same..I grabbed her by both ears laid her on her back and starred at her without letting her move,that seemed to put her in her place..before ya hunt run your dog behind the truck,my dad used to do that,seemed to slow them down.

[luvtohnt]

Get a good book about hunting dogs, and start from the begining. It will amaze you how a dog that seems out of control will respond to solid training. I used William Fields top dog, and I never thought I could train a dog as well as mine turned out.

Also if you do what rasbo said, it may work but it is different with males because he wants to be the dominant one so be ready for him to fight back. It worked well with his dog because she's a female, and female dogs are hard wired to surrender to the dominant male.

Brandon

[mjgentile]

SW Blacktail
I got a 2 1/2 GSP she is full of energy. First thing is they need to run and when you think they are done they run some more.
 I take my to dog park run her for about an  hour,  20 min ride home an you think she never ran at all.
The breed needs mental stimulation as well as plenty of exercise. When I can't take her to the park, my kids strap a leash on her an run her around the block a few times with their bikes. An after I run her she is a lot easier to work with.
Best of Luck

[bucklucky]

Ive had dogs that were to stupid to know better, the last draw was to nut them. It worked on 3 males , hunted better and were better all around hounds.

[Lee Root]

Hard to give advice when none of us know your dog.  I firmly believe in force fetching a dog.  I use the ear pinch method.  When it is done right the dog will be reliable...ie bring back everything you shoot, which is what I believe a hunting dog should do, and it will establish that you are the pack leader and he is your dog that does what you want him too.  He may still act "puppyish," but you will have established that you are the boss.  The last four dogs I have owned started hunting birds before they were a year old, and three of them before they were six months old.  One of them the first day out chukar hunting found and pointed 11 coveys.

Lee

[high country]

I am with lee on this, you are the boss.......he needs to respect that. a gwp that wont fetch might as well be a poodle. force fetch train him and then reward him for every single thing he does on comand. you need to realize that this is a high strung hunting dog and he needs to hunt.....but if he lacks obedience he is dangerous, to himself and others. you have to remember to keep your cool, not that you can't rough him up when he needs it, but make sure he knows why you are pissed at him. and when it is over.......let it be over. once you start making ground stay with it. add a little more each day and eventually he will come around.

[Sportfury]

My boy will be eight in February and I think he is still high strung. I think that is the way the breed is. Once outside the only time he is going slow is when he is standing still or tracking something. Make sure your boy is getting enough exercise. One summer I moutain biked 8 to 9 miles a day with the dog. He was in great shape (and so was I) and made him respond a lot better when I worked him. I notice if he has been cooped up for a while he thinks he has a mind of his own when he gets outside and I do have to show him who the boss is.

[Bigshooter]

He is a german wirehair POINTER, he is not a golden RETRIEVER.  If he is poor at retrieving I wouldn't worry about it.  Some of the best pointers I have seen were also some of the worst retrievers.

You said you have high expectations for the dog.  Did you have a dog before him?  A lot of people get second dogs hoping that it will be as good if not better than there first dog.  But sometimes that is not the case.  Don't be disappointed.  I would start hunting him and see how he turns out, all of the GWP I have been around get much better with age, and much calmer after about 3 or 4 years old.

[Ossahatchee]

Without seeing your dog of course , it is hard to be definitive. There are few dogs that are "untrainable"given proper training and a well thought out plan. Many dog owners/trainers simply expect way too much without the first thought of putting any work into a dog.  Just because a persons father is a Brain Surgeon doesn't mean that the child will come out of the womb with a scalpel in hand and a Phd! Dogs are no different. Natural abilities are just the foundation. If you want a reliable retriever force-fetch him (10-15 minutes a day for two months) not much  work for a dog that will save you from losing game and getting wet. If you want a dog to be steady on birds and in the blind it will take time and work. Many try to reinvent the wheel when it comes to training a dog.... There is no magic shortcut!

[Lee Root]

"He is a german wirehair POINTER, he is not a golden RETRIEVER.  If he is poor at retrieving I wouldn't worry about it.  Some of the best pointers I have seen were also some of the worst retrievers."


If you were to check the history of a GWP and went back to the breed they originated from the Deutch Drahthaar, you would find that when DD's are tested, (and they are tested before they can be bred,) they are tested in retrieving reliability.  The Germans hunt on leased land, if you were to leave an animal or bird on your leased land because your "pointer" left it behind and the next guy came along and recovered your lost game you would loose your lease.  They believe that the work after the shot is of the utmost importance.  The pointer part of their name was added when the breed was accepted by the AKC.  To not have a GWP or DD retrieve is almost as ridiculous as having a lab or golden or CBR or Springer not retrieve. 

GWP's and DD are versatile dogs.  They do it all.   

[Bigshooter]

I live in the USA and hunt public land.  If a pointer is a poor retriever I wouldn't loose any sleep about it.

[Bighorse]

Then nut him!  I don't want any field dog that doesn't LOVE to retrieve. 

You'll also get him to calm. 

[Lee Root]

Bigshooter:  I think you missed my "point".  A GWP should retrieve as well as a Golden Retriever.  If you are talking about English Pointers, then yes they have been bred to find and point birds, some do retrieve well, others could give a rip.  That is the nature of that breed; but not the nature of a GWP, they come from 100 years of breeding to be sure that they retrieve, at least DD's do.  And yes, DD's and GWPs both point, but they do so much more.  They will do great water work with waterfowl, they will track wounded animals by tracking the blood trail, they will retrieve fur (rabbits etc.), they will bay pigs if you wish.  Very versatile, and very reliable.  They do sometimes come with high prey drive, but once established as a subordinate in the pack they are loyal to the "nth" degree.

Every hunter should care about the retrieval of shot game.  If one does not, then I think that one should reconsider what it is to be a hunter, and become concerned.  My dogs usually find other people's lost game on a regular basis on both public and private land that I hunt on.  I realize that not every bird comes back to the bag, but to be cavalier about it is not a philosophy that I, as a hunter, can adopt with an attitude of acceptance. 

My original point to make to the author of this thread, is still force fetch the dog, or have a pro trainer do it.  The dog will be a different dog, because the relationship between the owner and the dog will be different.  The dog may still be high drive, but at least the dog will be controllable.  Lee

[Shannon]

I think anyone who says the retrieving aspect is not very important for a bird dog either hasn't hunted that much, waste a lot of game, or is a good swimmer themselves. I shot several pheasants, lots of quail, and a ton of ducks that I would not have gotten without a retrieving dog this year. I would get rid of a hunting dog that would not retrieve or turn them into a pet only and get a real hunting dog. Take it for what you payed for it.