selling fish on the side of the river question

[xxlx7]

Can someone please explain how its legal for the indians that net the river, sound, or crab are legally  allowed to sell their catch to the general public? I dont want this to become a indian bash or anything like that, im just curious. If i did that I would be in all sorts of trouble.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Racism.
Money and lawyers/politicians.
 

[Tbar]

Racism.
Money and lawyers/politicians.

It's up to the individual tribe to set the rules on who the catch is sold to.  All catch is supposed to be reported. This is also very common amongst state commercial fishers.  People trying to maximize profits and make a living. 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

What I have witnessed is a complete disregard for any regulation.
Under the 1st avenue bridge in Seattle they either sell them, or just dump them.
The knowledge that enforcement of regulations is ineffective allows people to pretty much do whatever they want.
Individual tribes might set rules, but the guy on the side of the river does not care.
There are no consequences.
 

[Wetwoodshunter]

I suggest this thread gets removed.

[heronblu]

 

[HunterStrait]

I suggest this thread gets removed.

Why? Because we're not allowed to talk negatively about these people? Most of the people on here don't care what color their skin is, or what they believe in, we want them to respect and use the wildlife resource fairly.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

What bothers me is that someone gets special treatment based upon race.
We will never have equality until we are all the same in the eyes of the law.
The original agreement was to allow a certain group to have similar rights, not special treatment. 
If it is illegal for one, it should be illegal for all.

[Tbar]

What bothers me is that someone gets special treatment based upon race.
We will never have equality until we are all the same in the eyes of the law.
The original agreement was to allow a certain group to have similar rights, not special treatment. 
If it is illegal for one, it should be illegal for all.

So is it illegal for a state commercial fisherman to sell his catch on the roadside?

[Wetwoodshunter]

Weather you are tribal or non tribal and a commercial fisherman you can sell your catch near the side of a road if the catch is reported on a fish ticket. Lots of fishermen "buy" there own fish and sell them again as they see fit.

There is no difference selling it to a restaurant or to a pedestrian on the side of the road. All fish is recorded, if it's not recorded on a fish ticket then it is an illegal fish regardless of being landed by a tribal fisherman or not.

The boldt decision reserves the right of the tribes to harvest up to 50% of the harvestable surplus and GRANTS non tribal fishers the opportunity to harvest the other 50%. At the signing of the treaties all fishing and hunting rights belonged to the tribes. The courts have upheld this in multiple decisions, boldt, raffide and such.

Tribes are also limited to harvest in specific U&A where they cannot travel to fish. Being non-tribal if you so desire to fish Westport 1 weekend and port Townsend another you can. Both tribes and non-tribal hatcheries release fish in the millions. In fact, where I live a state operated hatchet is subsidized by a tribe to protect there heritage.

Additionally, not every fisherman tribal or non-tribal follow every rule. There are many sport fishermen that keep over there limits or waste fish too. I urge anyone who wants to know more about tribes go to the Northwest Indian Fish Commission website and read up on the member tribes in your areas. Many of them are protecting your resources more than you think.

(This is merely an informative post and does not portray my opinions on anything whatsoever)

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

What bothers me is that someone gets special treatment based upon race.
We will never have equality until we are all the same in the eyes of the law.
The original agreement was to allow a certain group to have similar rights, not special treatment. 
If it is illegal for one, it should be illegal for all.

So is it illegal for a state commercial fisherman to sell his catch on the roadside?

Appropriate license, sure.
I thought the OP meant the guy that would just sell them.

[xxlx7]

Weather you are tribal or non tribal and a commercial fisherman you can sell your catch near the side of a road if the catch is reported on a fish ticket. Lots of fishermen "buy" there own fish and sell them again as they see fit.

There is no difference selling it to a restaurant or to a pedestrian on the side of the road. All fish is recorded, if it's not recorded on a fish ticket then it is an illegal fish regardless of being landed by a tribal fisherman or not.

The boldt decision reserves the right of the tribes to harvest up to 50% of the harvestable surplus and GRANTS non tribal fishers the opportunity to harvest the other 50%. At the signing of the treaties all fishing and hunting rights belonged to the tribes. The courts have upheld this in multiple decisions, boldt, raffide and such.

Tribes are also limited to harvest in specific U&A where they cannot travel to fish. Being non-tribal if you so desire to fish Westport 1 weekend and port Townsend another you can. Both tribes and non-tribal hatcheries release fish in the millions. In fact, where I live a state operated hatchet is subsidized by a tribe to protect there heritage.

Additionally, not every fisherman tribal or non-tribal follow every rule. There are many sport fishermen that keep over there limits or waste fish too. I urge anyone who wants to know more about tribes go to the Northwest Indian Fish Commission website and read up on the member tribes in your areas. Many of them are protecting your resources more than you think.

(This is merely an informative post and does not portray my opinions on anything whatsoever)

thank you very much. And like I said in the beginning, I don't want this to be a bashing thread, I was curious as to them selling them. Thank you for the informative answer!!!

And to those who said this thread should be removed, I am sorry that others express their personal opinions, but that wasn't the meaning of this thread

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

And to those who said this thread should be removed, I am sorry that others express their personal opinions, but that wasn't the meaning of this thread

And I want to apologize, I had just had a bad experience with a guy at a boat launch selling fish, and I was a little sensitive.

[xxlx7]

Does every native that is netting have a commercial license, or do they just net for personal/families? Lets just say your up on the Skagit river and there's a sign that says $15 fresh sockeye, or whatever fish, but doesn't have a commercial license can our game wardens site them like they would a non native selling fish, or would it go to the tribal courts?

And STIKNSTRINGBOW, I don't mind your personal opinion, I just don't want the moderators of the board to remove this because of the tribal versus non tribal. I get your frustration.

[Man Tracker]

Some tribes allow "out of truck" sales and some do not.  On paper, most require the fisher to sell to a licensed dealer, who as the first receiver, is responsible for documenting the catch on a fish receiving ticket.  (Tribal buyers fill out a tribal FRT/state licensed buyers fill out a state FRT.  Tribal FRT go to the NW Indian Fish Commission.  State FRT go to DFW in Olympia.

Rarely are fish sold "out of truck" (by whomever the fisher is) documented on a FRT.  So those fish go into the market without being counted towards anyone's allocation.

Most tribes have good regulations on paper.  Many lack the manpower (or the will) to enforce those regulations.  State Officers can document violations and refer to tribes for prosecution, as the tribes see fit.

[EyeTooth]

Thanks for not removing this thread. This is the type of discussion I like, and the way it should be discussed.

[xxlx7]

Thank you ManTracker!! Very informative.

[jpharcher]

I see them selling out of the truck every day along the Hood Canal when the silvers are in.
They net them in Dabob Bay, come back over to Seabeck Highway at Lone Rock with a large sign for fresh silvers....

[BOWHUNTER45]

I have went around and around with myself about tribal laws ..You can not blame the tribes ....blame your government . That's the problem here . Way to much government running every issue that arises ...the other day I was talking to my neighbor lady ..she owns a lot of land across the street from me ..she has over 30 head of elk in her pasture non stop ..I ask her if a friend of mine could shoot a spike with his spike tag ..Her reply to me was , I would think about but they are the INDIANS ELK    After a little explaining , she said she would think about it ...little off topic but that's the way it is !  For the most part I think the tribes are trying to do their best to keep peace amongst us all ...

[xxlx7]

I agree, you can't blame the tribes, my family comes from the blackfoots in west Virginia, however I am not tribal. My great grandparents said we are all Americans, and we should play by the same rules and didn't enroll my grandma, and so on. Sometimes, I wish they would have enrolled all of us, college tuition, hunting, fishing, ect. I guess the downfall is I would have to live in West Virginia too.... No thanks!!!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

When I said this,..

Racism.
Money and lawyers/politicians.

I was not blaming a group of people, I was stating the reasons it happens and we have issues.
Politicians and the legal system have allowed a certain race separate privileges.
There are people out there that will play the system any way they can.
Until all Americans are Americans ONLY, no added adjectives denoting their heritage, and we are all governed by the same laws, somebody is going to be unhappy. Period.
If you see a white guy selling fish on the side of the river, you can bet that an enforcement officer will catch him.
Hell, you even need a permit for berries, mushrooms, or whatever.

Most tribes have good regulations on paper.  Many lack the manpower (or the will) to enforce those regulations.  State Officers can document violations and refer to tribes for prosecution, as the tribes see fit.

A warden wont even hit the brakes if he sees a Native selling, not worth the paper to write the ticket.
Racial profiling in its purest sense.
My bad experience was with a guy selling out of his truck, he was rude to my kid that wanted to look at the fish when I told him I was not interested .
Was a real jerk.


I don't blame the tribes, I blame the individual, and the system we have in place that causes disparity among the citizenry.

[horsepacker]

over the years i have bought salmon from different tribes as soon as there boat hits the river bank. i usually need eggs so i will negotiate prices for a couple of fish. i also go to westport and buy tuna as soon boats hit the marina, i really dont care if they have a commercial license or not, in my opinion that none of my business. i have done this off and on for 50years 

[Man Tracker]

DFW Officers Can and often Will stop to see who is selling fish/shellfish.  Tribal members must follow tribal regulations, (and carry tribal ID) non-tribal must follow state rules.  DFW Officer can refer violations to the correct tribe.  If tribal members are outside of their U and A, they can be cited into state court, it requires approval from Olympia.  If all commercially harvested fish/shellfish were properly documented and sold according to the established laws, there would be more for everyone.

With all due respect to everyone, buying fish from an unlicensed seller only makes a difficult situation worse.  Anyone can ask if the product they are buying has been recorded on a Fish Receiving Ticket. 

Tribal issues are often extremely complex.  With 25 plus treaty tribes, each with their own regulations, state laws, rules, and court decisions on both the state and federal level, it is no wonder Game Wardens/Fish Cops get confused.  Clear direction is often lacking, adding to the difficulty.

[KFhunter]

What repercussions (if any) are there for the non-native buyers who purchased fish from a native seller whose just netting and selling fish without any regard to catch cards or any other law?   

I'm thinking the scenario is WDFW watches a dude buy a cooler full of salmon from a native and walking back to his truck with it and pulls up to stop them. 


Also part two question,  wouldn't a guy buying a cooler full of salmon be over their possession limits or does it even apply?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

What bothers me is that someone gets special treatment based upon race.
We will never have equality until we are all the same in the eyes of the law.
The original agreement was to allow a certain group to have similar rights, not special treatment. 
If it is illegal for one, it should be illegal for all.

So is it illegal for a state commercial fisherman to sell his catch on the roadside?

Not if you get the proper permits and make out fish tickets and turn them into the state, and pay any taxes due.

[brew]

What repercussions (if any) are there for the non-native buyers who purchased fish from a native seller whose just netting and selling fish without any regard to catch cards or any other law?   

I'm thinking the scenario is WDFW watches a dude buy a cooler full of salmon from a native and walking back to his truck with it and pulls up to stop them. 


Also part two question,  wouldn't a guy buying a cooler full of salmon be over their possession limits or does it even apply?

are the fish and game cops sitting outside Costco checking everyones seafood purchases to make sure they are not over their possesion limit ?  i hope not cuz i sure luv me some prawns...

[KFhunter]

no, but I do remember the days when cops sat outside the smoke shops nailing people for buying reservation cigs.


Costco wasn't in my scenario.

[PlateauNDN]

no, but I do remember the days when cops sat outside the smoke shops nailing people for buying reservation cigs.


Costco wasn't in my scenario.

Ah man, the smoke shop wars.....that was an Era to have lived in.

[Man Tracker]

To reply to KFHunters question.
To be legal when buying tribal caught fish from an individual fisher, non tribal member needs a  receipt/invoice with tribal fishers name, ID number, number/type of fish, location caught, and date.

[donsk16]

Can you list the law that makes that the case?  Why would you need that information?  I don't see the difference in buying a fish from the store or an individual fisher (assuming the fisher is documenting his catch properly).

[Man Tracker]

WAC 232.12.087 gives the requirements.

[idahohuntr]

Weather you are tribal or non tribal and a commercial fisherman you can sell your catch near the side of a road if the catch is reported on a fish ticket. Lots of fishermen "buy" there own fish and sell them again as they see fit.

There is no difference selling it to a restaurant or to a pedestrian on the side of the road. All fish is recorded, if it's not recorded on a fish ticket then it is an illegal fish regardless of being landed by a tribal fisherman or not.

The boldt decision reserves the right of the tribes to harvest up to 50% of the harvestable surplus and GRANTS non tribal fishers the opportunity to harvest the other 50%. At the signing of the treaties all fishing and hunting rights belonged to the tribes. The courts have upheld this in multiple decisions, boldt, raffide and such.

Tribes are also limited to harvest in specific U&A where they cannot travel to fish. Being non-tribal if you so desire to fish Westport 1 weekend and port Townsend another you can. Both tribes and non-tribal hatcheries release fish in the millions. In fact, where I live a state operated hatchet is subsidized by a tribe to protect there heritage.

Additionally, not every fisherman tribal or non-tribal follow every rule. There are many sport fishermen that keep over there limits or waste fish too. I urge anyone who wants to know more about tribes go to the Northwest Indian Fish Commission website and read up on the member tribes in your areas. Many of them are protecting your resources more than you think.

(This is merely an informative post and does not portray my opinions on anything whatsoever)

Good info.  Some do not understand treaties and their supremacy to state law...in fact most, at least until the 70s...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[donsk16]

WAC 232.12.087 gives the requirements.

Thanks - not that it is enforced, but how many people break the law without even knowing it!

[CAMPMEAT]

RUGGED JUSTICE hangs around the 1st avenue bridge, they'll get 'em....