Any body heard about this bull?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Thats a nice bull for sure!!
HF elk hunts are a definite turn off, but I support someones right to do it.

If she wants to pay whatever so she can put a bullet in an animal that doesn't have a chance in Hades of getting away, that's her business. But don't call it hunting. It's farming. When you are guaranteed the animal you want by the dollar amount you are willing to pay, you are purchasing an animal, not hunting it. What you do with it after you buy it is your business. But don't call it hunting.

The sad thing is, it cheapens real accomplishments of real hunters who work really hard to take a mature animal on it's own terms. Because once you kill them and have them mounted, they all look basically the same. There is no way to tell the difference just by looking at a set of antlers.  The real saving grace for real hunters is that they have the memories of what it really takes to harvest an animal one on one in the wild and that is the real trophy. And you can't put a price on it. And you can't buy that experience with money. You buy it by experience and effort.  I would take any wild wild fair chase taken animal as a trophy over that bull, even a cow. That bull is like buying a set of replica antlers and thinking you have a trophy.

Maybe for small ranches, but the big ones you wouldn't ever know the difference between that and the 'wild'.  Unless you're hunting on a quality tag as the only gun in the woods, you're generally not one on one with the animals.  Even getting a map or info from a forum is using someone else to give you advantage over the animal.

I visited a "hunting ranch" in Texas a few years ago. It was 7,000 acres. The elk stood or laid around the roads most of the day and the ones that bothered going into the brush would come out when the breakfast/dinner bell (I mean the corn feeder) went off. They are conditioned like cattle to come to a certain spot at feeding time.  They were also cordoned off in their own areas of the ranch, so even though it was 7,000 acres, the area where you "hunted" them was much smaller.  One area had different sheep, one had African animals, one had exotic deer, most of the ranch had native whitetail deer which could have led to some real hunting except you were only allowed to go sit in a stand that overlooked a feeder. The only "hunting" on the ranch that felt like hunting was for the wild hogs that infested the area. The guides would get out and push brushy draws and the shooters would set up in a spot where they could get a shot when the pigs moved out. Oh, and did I Mention "high racking"? That involves trucks set up with platforms above the cab of the truck complete with throttle and steering controls for the "guide" seats for the "hunters" with gun racks and drink holders so clients can be driven around the ranch drinking their favorite hootch and blasting whatever suits their fancy.  And they had a special "field" for the way above average whitetail bucks. When a 240" buck is $20,000 to shoot, I guarantee you will shoot a 240" buck. Doesn't matter how big the ranch is.

And this ranch is considered one of the elite hunting ranches in Texas. Many celebrities and celebrity "hunters" such as Jackie Bushman have shot animals on this ranch. And they feature their "hunts" on their television shows. What these "hunting" shows are is advertising for this big ranching business. And guys like Jackie Bushman get to act like they are serious professional hunters. We don't have it in Washington, so most don't know what a huge business it is in Texas and the midwest. Hunters here are vaguely aware of it but don't realize the scope of it.

[Bob33]

“Real hunter”? Who decides where the line is?

Is the person who scouts his hunting area on Google Earth, reads hunting blogs about the area, drives his $50,000 truck to the trailhead where he unloads his $10,000 ATV and then uses his GPS to drive to the pre-assigned scouting spot that he already knew about from computer research, sets up with his 338 Lapua, $2000 rangefinder, aenemometer, uses his handheld computer that he transported in on his ATV and powers it with his 2000 watt Honda generator to estimate the drop and drift, then takes his 800 yard shot across the canyon – BUT IT’S NOT HIGH FENCED COUNTRY – does this make him more of a hunter?

Or can one only be a hunter if he wears a red plain Filson shirt, and lugs a lever action 30-30?

[Rainier10]

“Real hunter”? Who decides where the line is?

I think this statement right here says it all.

I can pick holes in anyone's argument that they are a "real hunter" if playing devils advocate.

[bobcat]

By my definition, shooting a domestic elk is not hunting. It could be referred to as harvesting, but it's certainly not hunting.

Shooting a wild elk is "real" hunting as long as it is done during the hunting season and all laws are followed.

[Bob33]

The person who sits on the porch and shoots the "wild" deer out of his neighbor's apple orchard, that has been baited and trail cam'd so he knows its patterns, is a real hunter, but the one who searches hard for a deer for several days in a vast "fenced" area is not.  OK.

[notellumcreek]

I do agree about fencing in wild animals being illegal- I do believe some states have this rule do they now?

I don't believe it's legal in any state to fence in elk. What we're talking about here is domestic elk that are purchased like cattle and then released into a high fenced area.

Deer and elk farming is not legal in Washington, period. It's also illegal in Wyoming and I believe Montana just recently made it illegal.

Got it- thank you for the clarification! 

[fastdam]

By my definition, shooting a domestic elk is not hunting. It could be referred to as harvesting, but it's certainly not hunting.

Shooting a wild elk is "real" hunting as long as it is done during the hunting season and all laws are followed.

I dont think you have to be a "legal" hunter to be considered a "hunter".    People have hunted, and there have been hunter since before there were laws.    An illegal hunter may be a criminal, but still a hunter. 

Maybe a hunter could be defined as anyone who hunts??   I still dont think hunting and shooting are the same though.

[Bob33]

Check the rule book. By definition, a hunter must walk at least 1/4 mile before shooting, must restrict shots to distances less than 2000 yards, and must wear orange for all photos posted to public facing websites.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

“Real hunter”? Who decides where the line is?

Is the person who scouts his hunting area on Google Earth, reads hunting blogs about the area, drives his $50,000 truck to the trailhead where he unloads his $10,000 ATV and then uses his GPS to drive to the pre-assigned scouting spot that he already knew about from computer research, sets up with his 338 Lapua, $2000 rangefinder, aenemometer, uses his handheld computer that he transported in on his ATV and powers it with his 2000 watt Honda generator to estimate the drop and drift, then takes his 800 yard shot across the canyon – BUT IT’S NOT HIGH FENCED COUNTRY – does this make him more of a hunter?

Or can one only be a hunter if he wears a red plain Filson shirt, and lugs a lever action 30-30?

Tell me Bob, is Caitlyn Jenner a "real" woman? Does getting surgery and taking hormones make her worthy of a woman of the year award?

Calling high fenced shooting, hunting,  is the equivalent of calling Caitlyn Jenner a woman in my book. But that's just my opinion.

[Rainier10]

Wow did this one get off track.  Wonder why people don't post photos of what they consider success?

Nothing productive is going to come from this anytime soon.

[Bob33]

“Real hunter”? Who decides where the line is?

Is the person who scouts his hunting area on Google Earth, reads hunting blogs about the area, drives his $50,000 truck to the trailhead where he unloads his $10,000 ATV and then uses his GPS to drive to the pre-assigned scouting spot that he already knew about from computer research, sets up with his 338 Lapua, $2000 rangefinder, aenemometer, uses his handheld computer that he transported in on his ATV and powers it with his 2000 watt Honda generator to estimate the drop and drift, then takes his 800 yard shot across the canyon – BUT IT’S NOT HIGH FENCED COUNTRY – does this make him more of a hunter?

Or can one only be a hunter if he wears a red plain Filson shirt, and lugs a lever action 30-30?

Tell me Bob, is Caitlyn Jenner a "real" woman? Does getting surgery and taking hormones make her worthy of a woman of the year award?

Calling high fenced shooting, hunting,  is the equivalent of calling Caitlyn Jenner a woman in my book. But that's just my opinion.

And you are certainly entitled to it, but I would caution against branding others with it. There are some high fence areas that are small, and some that are massive. The spectrum is huge. Finding an animal in a fenced area that encompasses tens of square miles can be far more challenging than finding one in someone's back yard that has been baited.

[PlateauNDN]

“Real hunter”? Who decides where the line is?

Is the person who scouts his hunting area on Google Earth, reads hunting blogs about the area, drives his $50,000 truck to the trailhead where he unloads his $10,000 ATV and then uses his GPS to drive to the pre-assigned scouting spot that he already knew about from computer research, sets up with his 338 Lapua, $2000 rangefinder, aenemometer, uses his handheld computer that he transported in on his ATV and powers it with his 2000 watt Honda generator to estimate the drop and drift, then takes his 800 yard shot across the canyon – BUT IT’S NOT HIGH FENCED COUNTRY – does this make him more of a hunter?

Or can one only be a hunter if he wears a red plain Filson shirt, and lugs a lever action 30-30?

You must hunt with HW members?

[pianoman9701]

If you hire a guide, is that less than hunting, too? How about if you use a modern firearm, or any weapon more modern than an obsidian knife you made yourself? Putting someone down for a high fence hunt when you really know nothing about the person or the hunt is ignorant, IMO. We should support her, if only for the smile on her face.

[Rainier10]

Putting someone down for a high fence hunt when you really know nothing about the person or the hunt is ignorant, IMO. We should support her, if only for the smile on her face.

X1,000

[PlateauNDN]

It's similar to road hunting. I seen a guy from Canada confined to a wheelchair take 2 very nice bucks. Is he a hunter?