Baiting on the chopping block

[Boss .300 winmag]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

I think one choice is what he means, like category quality, second deer, buck deer, antler less, etc.

[Curly]

One choice per category is a good idea.   I bet most people will be against it though. 

[Bob33]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

I think one choice is what he means, like category quality, second deer, buck deer, antler less, etc.

OK. That makes sense. Thank you.

[Bango skank]

Id like it to be one choice per species (not counting multi season permits)
If you apply for quality elk, you cant apply for antlerless, etc.  Never happen though, loss of revenue

[idahohuntr]

Hopefully the GMAC isn't going to be suggesting a bunch of baiting restrictions.

The last vote was 17-0 recommending no change to baiting.  If all members were present it might be closer to 20-2 - for no change. 

However, I think its clear some commissioners want to address some of the public image/mass quantity issue.  We either get folks like bearpaw to provide reasonable recommendations or it will be left to people who couldn't find their backside with 2 hands and a compass.  I wish like many others it would just be left alone...but it is downright scary to think of what those less informed could come up with if we don't guide the process.

[bobcat]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

Bob, getting four choices in each category lessens your odds of getting the hunt you want most in two ways. First it decreases your odds because people who didn't really want that hunt will apply with one of their extra choices so there will be more applicants for that hunt. Second if you apply for that hunt and three others, you might get drawn for one of the other hunts that you only applied for because of the extra choices. Then you lose your preference points and start all over again and that lowers your odds. And if you only apply for the actual hunt you want and no others, you are still facing lowered odds because other guys used all four of their choices and used the hunt you want for a backup hunt.

And by creating all the different categories that everyone can apply for now, the state just made it that much harder to be drawn because everybody can apply for four hunts in each category. For example; Before you may have had 4 choices for an elk draw. Guys who wanted a cow tag could apply for 4 cow hunts, guys who wanted a quality bull tag could apply for 4 quality hunts.  Not many quality guys would apply for a cow tag and risk using up their points on a cow and serious meat hunters would rather apply for easier to draw cow tags than a hard to draw quality hunt. So it kept a lot of people from applying for your favorite hunt. But by allowing hunters to have four choices in each category, all of a sudden it didn't cost your quality points to apply for a cow tag, so more people put in for a cow tag, and meat hunters could put in for a cow tag and still have a chance at a quality tag which would be a bonus if you got it. So in effect it made all tags harder to draw. Top it off with allowing people to carry their points they currently had to all different categories and it gave an advantage to drawing cow tags and others to guys who had never put in for them before. Because most of the guys with a lot of points were guys who only put in for hard to draw quality tags. So they went more years without drawing and accumulated more points.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

I think one choice is what he means, like category quality, second deer, buck deer, antler less, etc.

I'd rather see 1 or 2 choices per species. Better odds all the way around.

[Curly]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

Wacenturian explained it before (very well too).  And one choice would increase the odds in the hunt he would like to draw.

The other advantage to going to one choice is it would be easier to figure out draw odds.  You could see where most people apply.  I think one choice would be the way to go.

[bobcat]

One choice would be fine with me but I'll never agree with the idea that it will improve odds. It's simple- same number of applicants and same number of permits equals the same odds. I understand that certain permits MAY be easier to draw. But as I said, others would be more difficult.

I agree that the additional categories made much more difficult odds all around.

[Bob33]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

Bob, getting four choices in each category lessens your odds of getting the hunt you want most in two ways. First it decreases your odds because people who didn't really want that hunt will apply with one of their extra choices so there will be more applicants for that hunt. Second if you apply for that hunt and three others, you might get drawn for one of the other hunts that you only applied for because of the extra choices. Then you lose your preference points and start all over again and that lowers your odds. And if you only apply for the actual hunt you want and no others, you are still facing lowered odds because other guys used all four of their choices and used the hunt you want for a backup hunt.

And by creating all the different categories that everyone can apply for now, the state just made it that much harder to be drawn because everybody can apply for four hunts in each category. For example; Before you may have had 4 choices for an elk draw. Guys who wanted a cow tag could apply for 4 cow hunts, guys who wanted a quality bull tag could apply for 4 quality hunts.  Not many quality guys would apply for a cow tag and risk using up their points on a cow and serious meat hunters would rather apply for easier to draw cow tags than a hard to draw quality hunt. So it kept a lot of people from applying for your favorite hunt. But by allowing hunters to have four choices in each category, all of a sudden it didn't cost your quality points to apply for a cow tag, so more people put in for a cow tag, and meat hunters could put in for a cow tag and still have a chance at a quality tag which would be a bonus if you got it. So in effect it made all tags harder to draw. Top it off with allowing people to carry their points they currently had to all different categories and it gave an advantage to drawing cow tags and others to guys who had never put in for them before. Because most of the guys with a lot of points were guys who only put in for hard to draw quality tags. So they went more years without drawing and accumulated more points.

I understand the issue of multiple categories quite well. I don' t necessarily agree that having multiple hunt choices per category diminishes draw odds significantly. If I am drawn for a fourth choice, I'm still drawn.

[Curly]

Multiple choices diminishes the draw odds for the unit a guy wants to draw the most.  With one choice, you apply for the unit you most wish to draw. 
With additional choices, you throw out other hunts for the hell of it, thus adding to the applicant pool in those units.

[Bob33]

Multiple choices diminishes the draw odds for the unit a guy wants to draw the most.  With one choice, you apply for the unit you most wish to draw. 
With additional choices, you throw out other hunts for the hell of it, thus adding to the applicant pool in those units.

I don't. I apply for four hunts that I want.

[bobcat]

The popular permits will get lots of applicants regardless of how many choices we have. Question is, which hunts would see better odds and which hunts would the odds get worse? There's no way to predict that. But overall, odds would remain the same.

[bobcat]

Multiple choices diminishes the draw odds for the unit a guy wants to draw the most.  With one choice, you apply for the unit you most wish to draw. 
With additional choices, you throw out other hunts for the hell of it, thus adding to the applicant pool in those units.

I don't. I apply for four hunts that I want.

 

I have never applied for a hunt that I did not wish to draw.