Another muzzleloader newbee

[fzy]

So after 30 years of hunting and shooting modern firearms I have decided to take the plunge and try blackpowder.  After much research I have decided to start with a Optima V2 Northwest.  I'm sure I will have many questions but I am going to start with powder.

I was on  Hodgdon's web site, looking at Pyrodex and Triple Seven. It seems that Triple Seven gives better velocity with like loads. Hodgdon also states that Triple Seven is only for use with 209 primers.   

In reading many posts on this forum I see  people using Triple Seven with caps.  Is it a reliable ignition  thing or some other reason Hodgdon says only use Triple Seven with 209 primers?

Thanks for your patience and help.
Mike

[Damnimissed]

777 loose powder can easily be ignited by #11 caps or musket caps. In fact, I've never had a misfire with #11's and 777 loose...pellets, on the other hand, are harder to ignite. Honestly, powder is just as easy and convenient as pellets. That's what I would use if I were you.

[M_ray]

Hodgdon recommends 209 or musket caps to fire their 777 pellets because they do not have a starter strip like the old pyrodex pellets. Using a #11 with loose 777 ffg or fffg isn't a problem. I use #11 Dynamit nobel caps and loos 777 ffg out of both my Thompson Center Muzzy's

[bobcat]

The 777 pellets are for 209 primers only. You could try Pyrodex pellets, or as others have said, go with 777 loose powder. That's what I use in my Optima. Never have tried pellets and I've been muzzleloader hunting for 30 years.

[M_ray]

I have spoken with the folks at hodgdon and they say you can use musket caps with their 777 pellets. In their own words "11's will work with 777 pellets but 1 out of a 1000 will misfire" so they cant guarantee them.

fzy, the other thing to consider is that pellets will only allow you 100 or 150 grain choice of load (make sure your barrel is rated for 150grns before trying it)... You will find that some guns shoot best with say 96, 92, 105 grn's ect... in other words you can play with the amount and scale down if necessary as to find the sweet spot. If you are not burning all the powder with your shot your  barrel can get fouled quickly and you may have trouble in the field getting a follow up shot stuck half way down your barrel. 150 grn loads as seen on the hunting channel are all with 209 primers so they burn hot ... 150grn load in WA with a #11 defeats the purpose IMO cause more than likely you are not burning all the powder anyway. You can easily check this when you shoot, place a tarp in front of your shooting station and look for unburnt powder that gets kicked out of your shot. If it is all burning of coarse the tarp will be clean if not start reducing you load until all your powder is burnt. If you can get a musket cap to burn 3 50grn pellets of 777 and group without fouling your barrel then you're in business 

There are pro's and con's to using both the #11's and musket caps ... #11's are smaller and some have trouble putting them on, however there are cappers to aide in this so finding one that works for you might mean you may have to experiment with a few and see which works for you. Also being that #11's are small I feel that there is less chance of moisture getting in in the event of rain also the are tight fitting. Musket caps of coarse burn hotter and are large making it easier to put on but they either have a flange with grove's or straight but they also have groves in the side's ... They don't fit as tight making them more susceptible to falling off which makes me less confident in their ability to keep the moisture out. If you like them you could cut rubber tubing for the top but of coarse this doesn't work with the type that have a flange.

Here is an example of cap keepers that I use on "11's and can be made or bought for musket caps as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Percussion-Cap-Keepers-300-Qty-for-No-10-and-No-11-caps-Color-BLUE-/141321540211?hash=item20e76b9273

[bobcat]

Ask Sabotloader, he will tell you the musket caps are not any hotter than the #11s. But personally I can't say. I only go by what Hodgdon says on their website, which is to only use 777 pellets with 209 primers.

[M_ray]

Ask Sabotloader, he will tell you the musket caps are not any hotter than the #11s. But personally I can't say. I only go by what Hodgdon says on their website, which is to only use 777 pellets with 209 primers.

  To be safe I would agree!   

[fzy]

Thanks guys.  Never intended on using the pellets, dumping powder down the barrel just seems better for finding that sweet spot.  I would think that FFFG would be easier to spark off due to the smaller granules.

Ordered the rifle last night and of course it's back ordered.  Oh well more time to gather info and supplies.

I'm sure more questions will follow, thanks.
Mike

[Sabotloader]

I have for the most part always shot T7 powder in my sidelocks and inlines.  Igniting T7 in an inline is not near as difficult as it can be in a sidelock.  Over the years I beleive I have dscovered for myself - during hunting season especially here in north Idaho - I shoot T7-3f with caps in  either a sidehammer or an inline.  During the summer or warmer months I do shoot a lot of T7-2f with caps.  When I am hunting with a 209 primer during Idaho's regular rifle season I do shoot T7-2f.

There is a liimited amount of heat and pressure in a cap wheather musket or #11's.  The real problem lies in hunting with T7 in cold weather. Caps will ignite loose T7 powder. Where they can run into a problem is when the metal in your breech area gets really cold! often the heat of a cap is absorbed by the metal in the cap and the metal on the way to the powder.  3F powder in the finer granulaions will ignite easier than the larger granulations.

Many years ago I was using Musket caps on my renegdes and often did not get ignition in below zero temps.  when we changed to #11 magnum caps and/or RWS Dynimit Noble 1075+ caps the problem seem to take care of itself.  I theorized the cap construction made the difference.  The #11 mag caps fit tighter and completly engulfed the nipple. Most of the fire-heat and pressure was directed right down and through the nipple and  touch hole to the powder. On the other hand a loose fit Musket cap with the large slits in the side seem to allow heat and gas out the side of the nipple. Not all of it was directed south through the nipple.

The next move was to find out the truth between the old argument of which is hotter - Musket or #11.  For this information I headed to Speer/CCI in lewiston just down the hill from Moscow.  My question to the man was which cap is hotter the Musket cap or a #11?  to my surprise he said the standard musket cap is hotter than the standard #11.  I was really disappointed.  But his next statement made things easiier for me... However the the #11 Magnum Cap creates the same heat as does the Musket cap. I have found that the RWS caps even create slightly more heat and pressure.  Then the next statement created another thought.  The Musket cap will burn longer than does the #11 or #11mag.  But if your powder is dry it really should not make a difference.  They both will ignite equally well. 

The other differences you will have to detirmine is which is more efficient at getting the most heat through the touch hole to the powder.  And which one can you seal from the weather the best.

So yes caps will iginite T7 loose powder 3f easier than 2f.  even in warmer weather caps will ignite T7 pellets in an inline.

[Sabotloader]

Ask Sabotloader, he will tell you the musket caps are not any hotter than the #11s. But personally I can't say. I only go by what Hodgdon says on their website, which is to only use 777 pellets with 209 primers.

Let me qualify this by saying #11 Magnum Caps or RWS Dynimit Nobel 1075+ caps   not the regular #11 caps.

[Duckslayer89]

I've been getting a much dirtier barrel after switching to loose powder in my Traditions Vortek. I was able to shoot about 3 shots before swabbing the barrel when using 2 pyrodex pellets. Now after one shot with loose powder it's darn near impossible to load a sabot I really have to force it down the barrel. Could this be from all of the powder not burning?

[MD36]

I have hunted muzzy for 14 years with pellets, loose, 11's and musket. With that being said I use pyrodex pellets and musket caps. With 11's I have had more powder not igniting than with musket. The key to all of if it keeping your caps and powder dry. Also I always shoot off the round before leaving the wood or unload the rifle. Never keep the powder in overnight as the temps change and the powder dampens. Good Luck and Welcome to muzzle loading

[Squidward]

I use 3F BP shooting a TC Hawkins 50cal. I tried sabots and could get about 2 shots and the rifle was in need of cleaning to shoot it again. With the BP and Maxi ball & # 11 CCI caps, I can shoot it all day with out cleaning.
I will suggest using the TC 4 in 1 quick load for fast reload while hunting.
If you're on the wet side and close to Pe ELL they shoot starting January - August 2nd Sunday of the month at the PeELL gun range. it's a fun shoot bring your quarters. Squidward

[M_ray]

I agree with sabotloader #11 dynimit noble 1075 caps are the only way to go! 

[fzy]

Ok, so are the #11 dynimit noble 1075 caps a musket cap or a percussion cap?  The Optima V2 was developed using musket caps, according to the CVA website.