GMU 239/224/231 - Methow/Twisp

[kirkl]

My wife’s cousin saw 10 legal bucks but looking for the big one, they got two, camp by them had 6 bucks. Lots of deer taken.

[huntnphool]

Welcome back! 

Some attitudes have changed since 2016.

 What attitudes have changed in 7 years?

[wolfbait]

The deer herds started their decline when the Game Department changed to WDFW, and the lack of management of the deer herds, if they had been managing deer there would be predator control and feeding stations during hard winters. WDFW is now and probably always has been just another fake environmental group.

In 2004 we could see the drop in deer, and from that time on it dropped every year some years worse than others. In 2004 a WDFW guy said it was the wolves that were being released that was causing the drop. Then you add cougar and bear management-end of hound hunting- excessive predation.

2010-2011 was the worst year I have ever seen for predation by cougars and wolves, from Mazama to Black Canyon, it was a slaughter.

By the time the 2014 fire hit our deer herds had already hit low numbers, I honestly believe we had plenty of habitat to support the number of deer we had then.
 I talk to a guy when I was fueling up who was in the Methow for the doe hunt, he said their party had filled half their tags and were coming back the next weekend to finish up. The fire was an excuse for WDFW to kill off a bunch more deer. I don't think some people understand what happens when you kill does that produce one to two fawns per year, or maybe they just don't give a dam.

Each year we would see the drop in deer, last year was a horrible winter for deer, too much snow. People who had never fed deer in the 50-60 years they lived in the Methow, fed the deer. The deer would huddle around houses, they traveled the roads from house to house it was a pitiful sight. Meanwhile where was the agency that was suppose to be managing these animals? They ran to the media with another BS article about the damage people are doing to the deer by feeding them, that is a perfect example of where the deer have gone.   WDFW have managed for No deer, they have done everything in their power to hurt the deer! And in the mean time they protect predators above all else.

I don't quite understand the shock at the deer numbers some have, we watched it happen for several years now. As I have said before in 2008 we fed over a hundred head with our broncs, we along with others who have had deer coming in to feed with stock have seen the drop in deer numbers year after year to what it is today, these deer will never recover, WDFW's plan from the beginning, their end goal, do away with hunting, kill off your food, they have just about succeeded.

Meanwhile on the predator end of things, we have seen cougars on the Valley floor throughout the summer for the last five er so years. Over on the Okanogan side, in Spring Coulee a very skinny cougar killed 2 goats in two night about a month ago, it was trapped shot. And just a few days ago another cougar killed two more of their goats, the people are thinking of selling out while they still have something left to sell.

Early this summer wolves killed 7 goats in broad daylight just off the Valley floor. The bear seem to be doing real well. And every year the "lookout pack" seems to have at least 12 in the pack, Benson creek pack is doing real well, The Rendezvous has a pack, they came with collars, how many packs are there? WDFW aren't interested in confirming packs until they are really sure there is a pack, usually takes about 10-12 years, and sometimes they never are discovered despite the sightings.

It's too bad WDFW didn't manage the deer like they did the predators, think where the deer herds would be today.

[NOCK NOCK]

PHOOL,

The posts below all mention human causes as the reason the herds are where their at. Fast forward to the newer thread 7 years later and the same folks are now talking predators are the reason. Which is it?

AGAIN, not necessarily disagreeing about the massive impact predators did have/are having, on the ungulates, and I'm not trying to pick on those quoted (From what I know you all have EXCELLANT knowledge of our critters). I just believe that the things we can currently have an affect on (human related) ungulate mortalities, get thrown away to easily by screaming PREDATORS at the top of our lungs.   

I must say I agree with bone 100 percent, I just returned from 5 days of scouting the area and in the 51 years I have hunted and scouted the area it was the worst I have seen as far as numbers, my dad has 75 years of hunting the valley and he was with me, he said "the worst he has ever seen". We hit a lot of different elevations, honey holes and areas where we usually see good numbers and good bucks........horrible to say the least! We will be hunting a different part of the state this year. I agree with what others have said, a combination of fires, doe harvests, a tough winter and an over the top harvest of big bucks last year all add up to  dissmall numbers. I think it will be at least a few years before things start looking up unfortunately.

Quote from: boneaddict on September 28, 2016, 06:17:14 PM
Quote from: MtnMuley on September 27, 2016, 10:57:41 PM
Primarily because of the season dates last year and the huge numbers of mature bucks killed. 2 major fire years took away much of the winter range as well. Big snow year last year pretty much rounded it out. All that and the biggest waste of air bio in the history of mule deer and you have it in a nutshell why it's pathetic.

Throw in a dozen or two wolves, some unwarranted antlerless harvest and you have it in a nutshell ( or that falls into the waste of air bio category)

Absolutely correct. Mine was just a quick rant.

[bigmacc]

I still stand by my post, as I’ve said many times the decline of the Methow herd over time has been multifaceted, everything from Mother Nature to human encroachment to pizz poor management. Now, 27 or so years have passed since the hound hunt ban. Sure the cat population grew after that ban but it didn’t explode over night or even in 5-10 years, sure numbers grew but now we’re looking down the barrel of 30 years removed of hound hunting cats. I would bet a lot of money those first 10 years were the slow beginning of the population boom of bears and cats. Now we’re in the throes of a predator pit. Almost 3 decades have passed since that ban. Do I believe today that predators and their mismanagement are the number 1 issue concerning the well being of this particular herd? Yes I do. Dozens of cached kills a year during hunting and scouting in areas that Ive never seen ONE in is telling. Seeing and hearing of cats under folks porches, under bridges, attacking pets and livestock in folks yards, cached kills in hay piles within 100 yards of a house and on and on. All becoming more prevalent in the last 10-15 years. Once again, today, imo, what’s the number one issue that’s detrimental to the health and growth of the Methow herd? Predators and their mismanagement, cats, bears, coyotes and wolves. Yes there are other factors but in present times (remember it started about 27 years ago) predators have developed int a HUGE issue concerning this herd, it may have taken 27 years to get there but it’s there now, number 1 in my book.

[huntnphool]

PHOOL,

The posts below all mention human causes as the reason the herds are where their at. Fast forward to the newer thread 7 years later and the same folks are now talking predators are the reason. Which is it?

AGAIN, not necessarily disagreeing about the massive impact predators did have/are having, on the ungulates, and I'm not trying to pick on those quoted (From what I know you all have EXCELLANT knowledge of our critters). I just believe that the things we can currently have an affect on (human related) ungulate mortalities, get thrown away to easily by screaming PREDATORS at the top of our lungs.   

I must say I agree with bone 100 percent, I just returned from 5 days of scouting the area and in the 51 years I have hunted and scouted the area it was the worst I have seen as far as numbers, my dad has 75 years of hunting the valley and he was with me, he said "the worst he has ever seen". We hit a lot of different elevations, honey holes and areas where we usually see good numbers and good bucks........horrible to say the least! We will be hunting a different part of the state this year. I agree with what others have said, a combination of fires, doe harvests, a tough winter and an over the top harvest of big bucks last year all add up to  dissmall numbers. I think it will be at least a few years before things start looking up unfortunately.

Quote from: boneaddict on September 28, 2016, 06:17:14 PM
Quote from: MtnMuley on September 27, 2016, 10:57:41 PM
Primarily because of the season dates last year and the huge numbers of mature bucks killed. 2 major fire years took away much of the winter range as well. Big snow year last year pretty much rounded it out. All that and the biggest waste of air bio in the history of mule deer and you have it in a nutshell why it's pathetic.

Throw in a dozen or two wolves, some unwarranted antlerless harvest and you have it in a nutshell ( or that falls into the waste of air bio category)

Absolutely correct. Mine was just a quick rant.

 I hear ya.

[timberfaller]

Having lived in the Methow for 35+ years, I will believe what I see.  enough said!

Things changed greatly when the departments where joined for sure, even Hunter Ed went south for a while! Better known as Micro Managing by idiots! Biggest problem is the young generation doesn't like to listen to the old codgers!!  Experience is a better teacher then any book learning one might exhibit!!

[jackelope]

Welcome back! 

Some attitudes have changed since 2016.

 What attitudes have changed in 7 years?

I feel like it's ok for peoples' views on things to change over the years. We live and we learn. Some people probably won't agree with that, but really, that's the way it should be if you ask me. Being too stuck in your ways isn't a good thing.

[baldopepper]

Kinda funny over the years hearing one group in an area saying they saw tons of deer and another group in the same area saying they saw nothing.  Lots of reasons for that I suppose but one thing I've seen over the years is deer pocketing up in one area, sometimes a very small area. I've seen two canyons right next to each other, one full of deer and the other empty.  Obviously the groups in the different canyons will have different stories.  When there used to be stronger numbers there were likely to be several of these deer laden pockets in a general area.  Now days it seems there are fewer of these pockets and they hold less deer.  Of course a lot of us are skeptical about some of the reports, but like fishermen I'm sure hunters never exaggerate.

[Mtnwalker]

We had a better general season than we've had in a while as far as deer numbers but I don't equate that whatsoever with the overall state of the herd. I think maybe we just found a pocket that the predators weren't currently working too hard, and pressure from the lower ground may have pushed some animals towards us as well. It was a nice change of pace though. Also this wasn't in the Methow but I felt it was relevant

[Skyvalhunter]

 What your going to find is deer have moved into the lower valleys more even during the summer. That's not just white tail now it's also mule deer. I have both on my property. Predators push the deer closer to town for security.
   I grouse hunt the high country every year. The past half dozen I have not seen one deer and I am way from the road. So it doesn't surprise me hunters did better because let's face it a majority like the convenience of being closer to town. Twisp was full of hunters opening weekend which is good for the local economy and makes a good showing that hunting is here to stay.

[baldopepper]

Another little dynamic of deer hanging lower and around town is the proliferation of feeders.  Seems just about every newbie gentlemen farmer who  buys a few acres, posts it and throws up a vacation home also puts up a feeder or hand throws out feed
 I know several in our area who keep pretty good herds around their house by simply throwing out a few handfuls of corn everyday.  Guess I'm kinda guilty myself, wife loves seeing the deer and I've got a faithful herd of 30-40 that hang out around the house (she's kinda getting tired of them eating everything she plants except the lavender though).  Doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize how many people are doing it and see the bunches of deer they've basically.domesticated.

[KP-Skagit]

What your going to find is deer have moved into the lower valleys more even during the summer. That's not just white tail now it's also mule deer. I have both on my property. Predators push the deer closer to town for security.
   I grouse hunt the high country every year. The past half dozen I have not seen one deer and I am way from the road. So it doesn't surprise me hunters did better because let's face it a majority like the convenience of being closer to town. Twisp was full of hunters opening weekend which is good for the local economy and makes a good showing that hunting is here to stay.

I have observed this as well. Used to be only whitetail around our place down in the river bottom, we would see mule deer in the late spring for a week or two only. This year we just have a couple whitetail does, zero bucks that I have seen. However, we had 8 legal mule deer bucks on our property during archery season, a couple that were very respectable deer. And there was even more does. I was kicking myself when I left my bow at home when we were basecamping there for my dad's sheep ewe hunt.

And its worth noting that the predators come with them. Every winter there are cougars that come down. I have cam pics of them 50 feet from our front porch. Always a bunch of kills around that you find in the spring. These are some hefty cats, not the DFW narrative that only the starving young ones hunt close to people.

[boneaddict]

This thread is disappointing to me. This is my first year hunting and I was really hoping to get into some animals in these areas. Looks like it will be a bit of a challenge.


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Dont listen to it.  i have been hunting there for over 30 years and saw more deer this year then i ever have!  The trick is you have to get out of your truck!  most of the hunters in these areas just like to drive around in there fancy trucks with the heater on and then complain there are no deer as they drive back down to there 40foot RV and watch a movie!   lol.   plenty of deer!  you just have to know where they are and go after them!  or just cross your fingers and hope you get lucky like most do!

Lol, sure, those people existed in the 80s too.  They’d come into the gas station sad they hadn’t seen a deer, while that morning I had been out hunting for an hour and counted 250 or so.   I’d be hard pressed to do that nowadays, even for the day.   I hunted hard all day yesterday and came up with 12 bucks including 3 whities.   Pretty slow day for me.  Interesting enough, I only saw one two point.   Makes me wonder about fawn recruitment. 

I’m pretty sure I mentioned wolves in 2016 and I am still mentioning them in 2023.  Still the same piss poor management and still the same outcome.

[bigmacc]

This thread is disappointing to me. This is my first year hunting and I was really hoping to get into some animals in these areas. Looks like it will be a bit of a challenge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dont listen to it.  i have been hunting there for over 30 years and saw more deer this year then i ever have!  The trick is you have to get out of your truck!  most of the hunters in these areas just like to drive around in there fancy trucks with the heater on and then complain there are no deer as they drive back down to there 40foot RV and watch a movie!   lol.   plenty of deer!  you just have to know where they are and go after them!  or just cross your fingers and hope you get lucky like most do!

Lol, sure, those people existed in the 80s too.  They’d come into the gas station sad they hadn’t seen a deer, while that morning I had been out hunting for an hour and counted 250 or so.   I’d be hard pressed to do that nowadays, even for the day.   I hunted hard all day yesterday and came up with 12 bucks including 3 whities.   Pretty slow day for me.  Interesting enough, I only saw one two point.   Makes me wonder about fawn recruitment. 

I’m pretty sure I mentioned wolves in 2016 and I am still mentioning them in 2023.  Still the same piss poor management and still the same outcome.