Meateater podcast on Mountain caribou in the Selkirks

[JLS]

http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_p018/rmrs_p018_101_116.pdf

As settlements grew, so did the hunting pressure. By the turn of the
century, big game numbers had dwindled alarmingly. By 1909, elk were so
scarce that the Oregon State Legislature put a ban on hunting elk that lasted until
1932 (Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife 1992). In 1912 and 1913, 30
elk from Jackson Hole, Wyoming, were brought in to supplement the herd
(Bailey 1936). These elk were placed in a protective enclosure known as “Billy
Meadows” on the Imnaha National Forest where they thrived and grew in
number.

[dwils233]

Dwils, maybe post a question you have for the biologist and somebody who thinks like him will answer your question 

my main questions are:

1. What other agencies (public/private/education) are interested in working with the tribe/ how active or aggresive is the tribe in finding new partner agencies or institutions?
2. From a wildlife management perspective, what does the wdfw need to do in order to protect the extant population?
3. Does the tribe (and other stakeholders) have a long-term management plan prepared? is it available to read?
4. What can the general public do to help at this point?
and finally
5. would he consider a "ride along" volunteer when he does a herd visit? 

[jackelope]

Dwils, maybe post a question you have for the biologist and somebody who thinks like him will answer your question 

This is an extremely likely scenario. Go for it. You might like the outcome. Lots of solid thinkers here.

[jackelope]

Dwils, maybe post a question you have for the biologist and somebody who thinks like him will answer your question 

my main questions are:

1. What other agencies (public/private/education) are interested in working with the tribe/ how active or aggresive is the tribe in finding new partner agencies or institutions?
2. From a wildlife management perspective, what does the wdfw need to do in order to protect the extant population?
3. Does the tribe (and other stakeholders) have a long-term management plan prepared? is it available to read?
4. What can the general public do to help at this point?
and finally
5. would he consider a "ride along" volunteer when he does a herd visit? 

WDFW is not involved in this project as far as I've heard. I think there was something eluded to in this regard earlier in the thread.

I've heard they were trying to boost the herd with animals from an outside source to eliminate genetic screw ups through inbreeding. I've also heard some maternal penning was on the table in order to better ensure survival of the newborns. Haven't heard in a while if any of this was going to be able to happen.

[dwils233]

WDFW is not involved in this project as far as I've heard. I think there was something eluded to in this regard earlier in the thread.

I've heard they were trying to boost the herd with animals from an outside source to eliminate genetic screw ups through inbreeding. I've also heard some maternal penning was on the table in order to better ensure survival of the newborns. Haven't heard in a while if any of this was going to be able to happen.

That was what I meant about the WDFW, I gather they are not involved, but in some capacity they should be (predator management authorization for example). I'm curious what a wildlife biologist has to say about WDFW essentially just ignoring an animal population and what they should or could do to help

[grundy53]

Dwils, maybe post a question you have for the biologist and somebody who thinks like him will answer your question 

my main questions are:

1. What other agencies (public/private/education) are interested in working with the tribe/ how active or aggresive is the tribe in finding new partner agencies or institutions?
2. From a wildlife management perspective, what does the wdfw need to do in order to protect the extant population?
3. Does the tribe (and other stakeholders) have a long-term management plan prepared? is it available to read?
4. What can the general public do to help at this point?
and finally
5. would he consider a "ride along" volunteer when he does a herd visit? 

WDFW is not involved in this project as far as I've heard. I think there was something eluded to in this regard earlier in the thread.

I've heard they were trying to boost the herd with animals from an outside source to eliminate genetic screw ups through inbreeding. I've also heard some maternal penning was on the table in order to better ensure survival of the newborns. Haven't heard in a while if any of this was going to be able to happen.

The maternal pens were approved.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[whacker1]

tagging along.

[WAcoyotehunter]

my main questions are:

1. What other agencies (public/private/education) are interested in working with the tribe/ how active or aggresive is the tribe in finding new partner agencies or institutions? The tribes are scratching up somw money and have enough to construct the pen now.  We will need somw volunteers to help with that effort though.  Grant applications are pending for more substantial funding for long term projects.
2. From a wildlife management perspective, what does the wdfw need to do in order to protect the extant population? The population needs a number of things 1) continued habitat protection 2) predator control 3) genetic augmentation and time.
3. Does the tribe (and other stakeholders) have a long-term management plan prepared? is it available to read? We have a draft management plan in the works.  The Kootenai tribe has contracted with USFWS and there is a group called SCITWG drafting that document
  Not available yet though.   Hopefully this winter
4. What can the general public do to help at this point? Not much unfortunately.  Support any efforts we can get started (maternal pen this fall) through volunteerism
and finally
5. would he consider a "ride along" volunteer when he does a herd visit?  . Come on anytime. The caribou are tough to find, but we can see some great country up there

[Humptulips]

From the podcast it seems pretty clear the Caribou were on the increase until the wolves showed up.
All that is needed is a little predator control and maybe a politician with some pull to beg BC for a dozen caribou.
Doesn't really sound that expensive to me and I can't imagine anyone here arguing to hard against a little predator control.
Great press for a hunting group to get behind this and a little push back against the wolf, cougar lovers.

[fish vacuum]

I listened to it a couple of weeks ago. Lots of fascinating stuff shared on there.

[Humptulips]

Here's the WDFW Status review,
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01852/

Does not look very promising,  few tidbits I saw that makes me wonder if they will ever come back:

Overall abundance of southern mountain caribou has declined 45% since the late 1980s and was estimated at 1,544 animals during 2008-2014. Eleven of the 17 subpopulations show declining trends, nine hold fewer than 50 animals, and two have become extirpated since 2003. The South Selkirk subpopulation was considered abundant and possibly numbered in the hundreds in the late 1800s, but decreased to an estimated 25-100 caribou between 1925 and the mid-1980s. Numbers ranged between 33 and 51 animals from 1991 to 2009 despite being supplemented with 103 caribou in two separate multi-year translocations in the late 1980s and 1990s. Most recently, the subpopulation declined rapidly from 46 to 12 caribou between 2009 and 2016. The percent of calves in the subpopulation during late winter surveys averaged 9.9% per year from 2004 to 2016, which is below the estimated 12-15% needed to maintain a stable population having high adult survival. Additionally, the South Selkirk subpopulation is isolated from neighboring subpopulations, with probably no immigration occurring in recent decades.

[CGDucksandDeer]

The New York Times had an article on this issue today. Not a particularly optimistic take, and unfortunately no mention of the proposed maternity penning projects the tribes and others would like to see in ID/WA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/science/endangered-caribou-idaho-british-columbia.html?_r=1


A Methow Valley-based biologist and author is also working on a project to help bring more publicity to this endangered species. Hopefully it can point some attention in the direction of reintroduction programs and predator removals before it's too late.
http://davidmoskowitz.net/mci/

[timberfaller]

Well ole Dave has a nice website,  He had my interest until I seen his supporters and the "main" focus of his over the Mt Caribou.

Wonder when/why he "transplanted" himself to the Methow??   Probably to join the MVCC!!  Never heard of him after living there 35 years

[idaho guy]

Canadian Gray Wolves are not native to Washington State. Its not proven that they were released here but migrated naturally, that still doesn't make them native. The Caribou are actually native and deserve to be protected from the non-native wolves that prey on them. Griz are actually native as well, and as scary as they are, I'm glad to have a few of them back. They are awesome animals. Shoot the wolves.

Caribou migrated here from Canada same as the wolves.  More of them live in Canada where the same wolves are more established.

I don't see the point in spending money to try to "save" a few animals at the fringe edge of their habitat.

There is another angle on this. An old timer told me about a guy high up in the forest service who  fell in love with the Selkirks and started the whole native caribou thing to basically try and create another wilderness area and limit a lot of use in that part of North Idaho. They have already in the past limited places you can snowmobile in the priest lake area to protect the "native caribou". Also I have read where they want them or they already have classified them as a sub-species of caribou. I agree 100% that the few they have been documented are migratory Canadian caribuou. I would love to have caribou all over Idaho but I can see this as another environmental move to limit access by man to a large area. I have not listened to the podcast but I will. I don't want to argue either just another viewpoint. Think spotted owl   

[idelkslayer]

The caribou are native, it's not made up by some "high up" forest service employee.  Hell even Theodore Roosevelt went on a hunting trip to the Idaho Selkirks to hunt caribou back in the day as has been mentioned previously on this thread.

The USFS tried to set aside a large swath of the Idaho selkirk crest as designated caribou habitat and restrict snowmobile access.  The locals threw a fit and got the designated area reduced to an area so small it doesn't matter anymore.

I agree with the comments that if we treated deer and elk like everyone is so willing to forget about the caribou we would have nothing left to hunt but rabbits.  Some early reports have sightings of caribou as far south as Moscow.
When I was in high school I used to dream that caribou would recover enough that a controlled hunt might open for them in my lifetime.  After a decade I hoped that I might at least see and photograph one in my lifetime.  Another decade and now I have little hope of that.