Change the 24 caliber min in washington(added poll please vote)

[Bob33]

 

.243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

Oh and out of 9 deer, 6 were taken with a reduced recoil load out of a .243 using a 58gr vmax which is identical in performance to a .223.

[bobcat]

I think it's only a matter of time until the law is changed. Just like all the other controversial issues such as lighted nocks and copper jacketed bullets in muzzleloaders. Other states have been changing their minimum caliber due to public pressure and it will happen here too. And it should. It makes no sense that a Glock 9mm handgun is legal for big game but a 22-250 shooting a 60 grain Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX.

[Curly]

No comments on the suitability of the Glock 9mm that I posted earlier for deer, elk, and bear? I wonder how many people are choosing to hunt with their Glock just because it's legal?

They probably should change the law so that a pistol like that isn't legal. Sounds like there would be much more support for that change than allowing a rifle (that is perfectly capable) from becoming legal....

[Karl Blanchard]

.243 is still too much for them.  So should they not be allowed to hunt because they aren't as big as other kids their age?

Oh and out of 9 deer, 6 were taken with a reduced recoil load out of a .243 using a 58gr vmax which is identical in performance to a .223.

  I'm purely arguing the stupidity of the law bob.  They are same same but one is illegal because of an arbitrary number. 

My daughter for the record does not fit my .243.

[rtspring]

Here is a FACT we all know but hide it like it has not happened! 

Many deer, and other big game have been killed with a .22 rifle.  The numbers are probably shocking.

Just like archery, muzzy, and rifle hunting using a caliber under .243 would greatly depend on " Shot Placement".  Aka the Face!  It can and has been done by many grandfathers, their brothers, sisters and such starting way way back. 


I would use a .22 for (DEER) if it were legal every single day of the week and  I could kill them just as dead as any guy does with his 338 magnum.  Only diffrence would be distance of shots, but don't we have to get close with muzzy and archery too? 

Spare me the ethics complaints! I've seen plenty of wrong doings with every weapon out there.   

[Skillet]

I was pretty against lowering the caliber minimum, but this has been a good discussion and am coming to believe the current crop of premium bullets readily available makes a speedy .223 caliber bullet good for making meat. I am liking WY's take on this.  But I do still have some concerns, and am withholding my support for now.

[Low Brush]

I agree with BLR. This is a youth issue that should be changed.

[JDHasty]

Montana's Fish & Wildlife Commission approved a new rule this week that clears the way for the state's "apprentice hunter" law to take effect.
The law, enacted earlier this year by the state Legislature, allows youth 10-17 years of age to obtain a certification to purchase some Montana hunting licenses before completing a hunter education course. Apprentice hunters, however, are required to be accompanied by an adult mentor.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
The new rule approved Thursday defines certain mentor responsibilities and establishes the process for designating and identifying a mentor.
Under the law, apprentice-hunter certification is for two license years only. After two years, the apprentice hunter must complete a hunter safety and education course. Also, to participate in the program, an apprentice hunter must:
be between the ages of 10-17 years old;
obtain a $5 certification from an FWP office; certification forms are available online;
have all appropriate licenses in their possession at all times while in the field.
For a prospective mentor to participate, he or she must be:
21 years old or older;
related to the apprentice by blood, adoption, or marriage; or be the apprentice's legal guardian, or appointed by the apprentice's legal guardian;
have completed hunter education–if born after Jan. 1, 1985;
have a current Montana hunting license;
agree to supervise and remain within sight of and direct voice contact with the apprentice hunter at all times while in the field;
only accompany one apprentice at a time;
confirm that the apprentice is psychologically and physically prepared to hunt.
Mentors are also required to complete and sign a form, along with the apprentice, and if applicable, the apprentice's parent or legal guardian. Mentor forms are free and are also available via FWP's website.
An apprentice hunter is not eligible to obtain a special bow and arrow license without first completing a bowhunter education course; a resident hound training license for chasing mountain lion; a bighorn sheep license; an elk license if under 15 years of age. Nor can an apprentice hunter participate in any of Montana's limited-quota hunting license or permit drawings.
Violation of the terms by an apprentice hunter or mentor could result in the loss of hunting privileges for up to one full license season.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
For more information visit FWP's website at fwp.mt.gov, then click "Apprentice Hunter Program".

[kentrek]

I don't think the law is necessarily to keep guided kids like blrm's from being unethical....like a lot of the laws they are really only out there for a small percentage of people who take the bad shots & don't know better...

Just because you own an existing rifle you want to use doesn't make for a valid argument...

Instead of caliber specific let's use a minimum energy rule....and once we establish that can we then apply that to shot distance limitations ?? Just seems like it would be simpler to leave it as is 

[Karl Blanchard]

Montana's Fish & Wildlife Commission approved a new rule this week that clears the way for the state's "apprentice hunter" law to take effect.
The law, enacted earlier this year by the state Legislature, allows youth 10-17 years of age to obtain a certification to purchase some Montana hunting licenses before completing a hunter education course. Apprentice hunters, however, are required to be accompanied by an adult mentor.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
The new rule approved Thursday defines certain mentor responsibilities and establishes the process for designating and identifying a mentor.
Under the law, apprentice-hunter certification is for two license years only. After two years, the apprentice hunter must complete a hunter safety and education course. Also, to participate in the program, an apprentice hunter must:
be between the ages of 10-17 years old;
obtain a $5 certification from an FWP office; certification forms are available online;
have all appropriate licenses in their possession at all times while in the field.
For a prospective mentor to participate, he or she must be:
21 years old or older;
related to the apprentice by blood, adoption, or marriage; or be the apprentice's legal guardian, or appointed by the apprentice's legal guardian;
have completed hunter education–if born after Jan. 1, 1985;
have a current Montana hunting license;
agree to supervise and remain within sight of and direct voice contact with the apprentice hunter at all times while in the field;
only accompany one apprentice at a time;
confirm that the apprentice is psychologically and physically prepared to hunt.
Mentors are also required to complete and sign a form, along with the apprentice, and if applicable, the apprentice's parent or legal guardian. Mentor forms are free and are also available via FWP's website.
An apprentice hunter is not eligible to obtain a special bow and arrow license without first completing a bowhunter education course; a resident hound training license for chasing mountain lion; a bighorn sheep license; an elk license if under 15 years of age. Nor can an apprentice hunter participate in any of Montana's limited-quota hunting license or permit drawings.
Violation of the terms by an apprentice hunter or mentor could result in the loss of hunting privileges for up to one full license season.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
For more information visit FWP's website at fwp.mt.gov, then click "Apprentice Hunter Program".

  yep there she is 

[M_ray]

I chose to keep it the same but having said that it wouldn't bother me if it were changed. For those that argue the ethical side of a change I say that a reduction in caliber doesn't make a person loose his or her ethics. If they are going to take a bad shot with a .223 then they will just as likely take a bad shot with whatever they have in their hands. 
For the youth argument I get it and if you shoot little things at closer ranges then shot placement argument works for you too. But if its large game and  tough and I'll take energy and knockdown power any day before I watch a big buck walk away at 600yds 

[Low Brush]

Youth should be able to shoot a gun they are comfortable with. The argument of more game will be wounded is nonsense in my opinion. A bad shot with a .243 caliber and a.223 caliber will have the same result!

[JDHasty]

Montana's Fish & Wildlife Commission approved a new rule this week that clears the way for the state's "apprentice hunter" law to take effect.
The law, enacted earlier this year by the state Legislature, allows youth 10-17 years of age to obtain a certification to purchase some Montana hunting licenses before completing a hunter education course. Apprentice hunters, however, are required to be accompanied by an adult mentor.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
The new rule approved Thursday defines certain mentor responsibilities and establishes the process for designating and identifying a mentor.
Under the law, apprentice-hunter certification is for two license years only. After two years, the apprentice hunter must complete a hunter safety and education course. Also, to participate in the program, an apprentice hunter must:
be between the ages of 10-17 years old;
obtain a $5 certification from an FWP office; certification forms are available online;
have all appropriate licenses in their possession at all times while in the field.
For a prospective mentor to participate, he or she must be:
21 years old or older;
related to the apprentice by blood, adoption, or marriage; or be the apprentice's legal guardian, or appointed by the apprentice's legal guardian;
have completed hunter education–if born after Jan. 1, 1985;
have a current Montana hunting license;
agree to supervise and remain within sight of and direct voice contact with the apprentice hunter at all times while in the field;
only accompany one apprentice at a time;
confirm that the apprentice is psychologically and physically prepared to hunt.
Mentors are also required to complete and sign a form, along with the apprentice, and if applicable, the apprentice's parent or legal guardian. Mentor forms are free and are also available via FWP's website.
An apprentice hunter is not eligible to obtain a special bow and arrow license without first completing a bowhunter education course; a resident hound training license for chasing mountain lion; a bighorn sheep license; an elk license if under 15 years of age. Nor can an apprentice hunter participate in any of Montana's limited-quota hunting license or permit drawings.
Violation of the terms by an apprentice hunter or mentor could result in the loss of hunting privileges for up to one full license season.
The $5 Apprentice Certification will be available beginning Monday, Aug. 10 only at FWP offices.
For more information visit FWP's website at fwp.mt.gov, then click "Apprentice Hunter Program".

  yep there she is 

It is pretty much a chip shot to take a decent whitetail off my cousin's ranch in Augusta if you don't get impatient.  I was hoping to set Bridget up behind a couple bales w/her 7x30 Waters Contender and Harris bipod... but that will have to wait until 2019 at the earliest. 

[Lefthook]

Youth should be able to shoot a gun they are comfortable with. The argument of more game will be wounded is nonsense in my opinion. A bad shot with a .243 caliber and a.223 caliber will have the same result!

Raise the caliber if youth are losing deer and don't let them hunt until they can handle a larger caliber.

[BULLBLASTER]

Youth should be able to shoot a gun they are comfortable with. The argument of more game will be wounded is nonsense in my opinion. A bad shot with a .243 caliber and a.223 caliber will have the same result!

Raise the caliber if youth are losing deer and don't let them hunt until they can handle a larger caliber.

New minimum caliber requirement... 375 hh or larger and only bullets weighing 300 grains can be used.