Guns in Wa. stadiums

[Bean Counter]

Amazing the Master Jedi marksmanship one apparently obtains when a badge gets pinned on.

Last I read the DOJ statistics the average LEO only hits his target 20% of the time. Give me an armed Joe the Plumber in the bleachers any day. 

Because the armed Joe the Plumber has that much more training or is better than 20% average? Doubt it. I just don't believe that someone who has likely never fired a gun in a high stress situation in an environment like that will do any better. Not saying a police officer will either...just saying..some training is better than no training. Some experience is better than no experience.

Ok gotta go #BeanCounter on ya...

First off, cops are 5x more likely to shoot the wrong person:
"...Although only 2 percent of those involved in civilian shootings are misidentified, 11 percent of individuals involved in police shootings were later found to be innocents misidentified as criminals..."
https://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/02/17/fact-police-are-much-more-likely-to-shoot-the-wrong-person-than-armed-citizens/

According to the University of Chicago, for every two bad guys the cops kill, they kill one innocent person.
http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

Armed citizens kill at least twice as many bad guys as do cops
https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

DOJ study of incarerated felons indicated that more than half of prisoners feared armed citizens more than cops.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/57-of-criminals-fear-armed-citizens-more-than-cops/

Still looking for it, but there's a metric out there somewhere that specifically says that armed citizens shooting back hit the bad guys at better %s than the cops.

Look, I'm one of the most pro-LEO members on this forum, but cops have a tough job that's just simply asymmetrical with the benefits of a widely armed citizenry. 

[Scvette]

Amazing the Master Jedi marksmanship one apparently obtains when a badge gets pinned on.

Last I read the DOJ statistics the average LEO only hits his target 20% of the time. Give me an armed Joe the Plumber in the bleachers any day. 

Because the armed Joe the Plumber has that much more training or is better than 20% average? Doubt it. I just don't believe that someone who has likely never fired a gun in a high stress situation in an environment like that will do any better. Not saying a police officer will either...just saying..some training is better than no training. Some experience is better than no experience.

Ok gotta go #BeanCounter on ya...

First off, cops are 5x more likely to shoot the wrong person:
"...Although only 2 percent of those involved in civilian shootings are misidentified, 11 percent of individuals involved in police shootings were later found to be innocents misidentified as criminals..."
https://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/02/17/fact-police-are-much-more-likely-to-shoot-the-wrong-person-than-armed-citizens/

According to the University of Chicago, for every two bad guys the cops kill, they kill one innocent person.
http://www.actionamerica.org/guns/guns1.shtml

Armed citizens kill at least twice as many bad guys as do cops
https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

DOJ study of incarerated felons indicated that more than half of prisoners feared armed citizens more than cops.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/57-of-criminals-fear-armed-citizens-more-than-cops/

Still looking for it, but there's a metric out there somewhere that specifically says that armed citizens shooting back hit the bad guys at better %s than the cops.

Look, I'm one of the most pro-LEO members on this forum, but cops have a tough job that's just simply asymmetrical with the benefits of a widely armed citizenry. 

Who do you think you are...going and citing facts    isn't it better when people pull there info from there butts.   good job! 

[b.roberts]

I don't really understand the purpose of this law, other than to reiterate what is already state law.  Cities can ban firearms in stadiums and convention centers, except that such bans don't apply to concealed pistol license holders. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[b.roberts]

^ rcw9.41.300 subsection 2b

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[EmeraldBullet]

Just read rcw9.41.300 sub 2b, and now I'm confused. Does that means if you have a cpl you already can bring a pistol into the stadium in the status quo?

"(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
...
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or
..."

[ghosthunter]

I read that the stadiums,convention centers are leased by whoever, the lease specifies no fire arms. That's how they get around the law.

They do the same at Seafair.

If the city was in charge of the whole thing than firearm could not be barred.

[pcal]

Thoughts? Heck no. Guns are scary.

The HP can have some good articles but ones like these always push my buttons. They give no facts, statistics, etc. They just paint a bleak picture of gun battles in the stadiums with enraged drunk spectators. It's ridiculous. I know the bill will never pass in this state but I wish it would.

               Guns are scary for the sheeple :A Loyola University (New Orleans) professor called the cops on a student of hers because he showed up in his POLICE uniform for a schedualed class.The dispatcher asked for his badge # to check if he was a real officer.The dispatcher asked if he was threatening or being disruptive.No,BUT HE HAS A GUN!    Look it up ,I couldn'd believe it wasnt made up til I read it.Story was from 12/9/16 so was just last week.

[Special T]

Never heard of anyone shot at Huskies Stadium and they never  wanded or metal detected anyone.
I just gave up. I prefer not to go to Seattle for any reason. Certainly not with my wife and kids for "fun". If I'm that hard up for the game the TV has better coverage anyway... better thing to do and better places to support with my cash.

[Gunsmoke]

.
I just gave up. I prefer not to go to Seattle for any reason. Certainly not with my wife and kids for "fun". If I'm that hard up for the game the TV has better coverage anyway... better thing to do and better places to support with my cash.
[/quote]

 

[pianoman9701]

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

I have kids and have taken my son to games in stadiums when he was 10. Never out of arm's reach in a stadium. Ever.

[jackelope]

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

So you'd feel more comfortable knowing there's no one in the area that could legally have a gun to try and stop someone who want to kill as many people as they can! So you'd cower down and hope they would let you live....not me,if I wasn't carrying,which won't happen.,I'd be wishing someone else was. I guess that's why the world has sheeple

I think you're missing my point. The concern I have is you've got the bad guy and you've got some amateur hour gun owner start shooting and bullets are flying everywhere. Random casualties in that situation are pretty much guaranteed to happen in those crowds. As of now, if you go to Safeco field, you get wanded or through the metal detector. You have a gun. You can't go in with the gun. Now we have a new law that says you can. Some nutcase with a CWP now walks into Safeco field with his now legal gun and decides to shoot up the place. They let him in with it because it was legal.  Obviously someone could sneak a gun in probably, but now it's pretty much legal to walk in with one as long as you have a CWP.
I can't tell you the last time I went to a mall. I might go to 1 game at a big stadium per year....maybe... I don't like crowds. With all the crap going on in the world, I'd much rather stay out of the city and the malls, etc.  I like to stay in my small town. Friday night lights and all. You know. I am a gun owner, handgun owner, I carry at times, I'm not anti-carry or anything like that.

[haugenna]

I am with Jackelope on this one. There are security guards and police everywhere at these events. I would not consider stadiums a soft target.

Heck, I have to decommission my weapon going to a gun show.

There are better things to spend our energy on restoring gun rights.

This will be a black eye for us in the long run if it were to pass.

Think of all the suicides that would take place at the Mariner games. 

[CAMPMEAT]

I don't know what the big deal is on here. Laws do not pertain to criminals, never have, never will.

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

So you'd feel more comfortable knowing there's no one in the area that could legally have a gun to try and stop someone who want to kill as many people as they can! So you'd cower down and hope they would let you live....not me,if I wasn't carrying,which won't happen.,I'd be wishing someone else was. I guess that's why the world has sheeple

I think you're missing my point. The concern I have is you've got the bad guy and you've got some amateur hour gun owner start shooting and bullets are flying everywhere. Random casualties in that situation are pretty much guaranteed to happen in those crowds. As of now, if you go to Safeco field, you get wanded or through the metal detector. You have a gun. You can't go in with the gun. Now we have a new law that says you can. Some nutcase with a CWP now walks into Safeco field with his now legal gun and decides to shoot up the place. They let him in with it because it was legal.  Obviously someone could sneak a gun in probably, but now it's pretty much legal to walk in with one as long as you have a CWP.
I can't tell you the last time I went to a mall. I might go to 1 game at a big stadium per year....maybe... I don't like crowds. With all the crap going on in the world, I'd much rather stay out of the city and the malls, etc.  I like to stay in my small town. Friday night lights and all. You know. I am a gun owner, handgun owner, I carry at times, I'm not anti-carry or anything like that.

How many rounds are shot at a bad guy until the threat is done by LEO's ? 10, 20,  64 and how many rounds fly around not hitting the target ?

[haugenna]

I don't know what the big deal is on here. Laws do not pertain to criminals, never have, never will.

In a crowd active shooter situation, unarmed people tend to lie flat, get behind cover, or run away from the shooter. In the video's I've watched, clear lanes of fire open rather quickly.

Does a 10 year old know to do that?
Hopefully people are able to move faster than bullets can fly?? Especially the ones who can't see that someone is about to pull a trigger.
I don't like it.

No, but the parent who's with the 10 year old does. Whether it's a cop or an armed citizen, an active shooter needs to be stopped before he kills possibly scores more people. Either the cop or the armed citizen may miss and shoot, even possibly kill a bystander. But killing the shooter ASAP will ultimately save way more lives than standing around waiting for everyone to be safe and out of the way. We're not talking about an armed robbery or a car jacking where killing the perpetrator is a judgement call and may be an unnecessary risk to bystanders. We're talking about lots of people being killed if the guy isn't stopped. If someone's sitting right next to him with a firearm, it stops really fast.

Not sure if you have kids or had kids, but keeping a 10 year old within immediate range to grab/push/shove/whatever towards a safe location is virtually impossible. I guess I don't trust 90% of the people who might be carrying to be educated and trained as to what the right thing to do is in that scenario. That's not the same as an intruder in your house or a carjacking or some other less populated situation. Everybody has all the training they need when they're talking about it via their keyboard. When the crap hits the fan, not many people actually know what to do. That is a real life fact.

So you'd feel more comfortable knowing there's no one in the area that could legally have a gun to try and stop someone who want to kill as many people as they can! So you'd cower down and hope they would let you live....not me,if I wasn't carrying,which won't happen.,I'd be wishing someone else was. I guess that's why the world has sheeple

I think you're missing my point. The concern I have is you've got the bad guy and you've got some amateur hour gun owner start shooting and bullets are flying everywhere. Random casualties in that situation are pretty much guaranteed to happen in those crowds. As of now, if you go to Safeco field, you get wanded or through the metal detector. You have a gun. You can't go in with the gun. Now we have a new law that says you can. Some nutcase with a CWP now walks into Safeco field with his now legal gun and decides to shoot up the place. They let him in with it because it was legal.  Obviously someone could sneak a gun in probably, but now it's pretty much legal to walk in with one as long as you have a CWP.
I can't tell you the last time I went to a mall. I might go to 1 game at a big stadium per year....maybe... I don't like crowds. With all the crap going on in the world, I'd much rather stay out of the city and the malls, etc.  I like to stay in my small town. Friday night lights and all. You know. I am a gun owner, handgun owner, I carry at times, I'm not anti-carry or anything like that.

How many rounds are shot at a bad guy until the threat is done by LEO's ? 10, 20,  64 and how many rounds fly around not hitting the target ?

28 in this exchange with one finding the asleep "perps" hand.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fkppHG0U_Eo

[Bean Counter]

Police have a hard job. they're marked by their uniform, and will be out of breath and shaken by the time they get done running towards the gun shots while everyone else is running away.