Stop the National Carry Permit!

[Bean Counter]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/14/korwin-stop-the-national-handgun-carry-permit/

"...Too many gun owners, including some leaders of the gun-rights movement, sincere but totally misinformed and misdirected, are salivating for our permit-carrying president elect to issue some sort of national carry plan. It cannot, must not, better not be a national permit in any way shape or form...

[Constitutional Carry]...State after state has enacted this – freedom to carry with no government interference whatsoever. You can carry a gun pretty much like you can carry a book. It’s called rights.

And everyone knows books are dangerous. Just look at deaths caused by the Quoran, or the Commie Manifesto..."

[huntingbaldguy]

I agree.  If every state passed constitutional carry then there's zero need for a national permit and it won't give the government more info that they don't need.

[Special T]

I think it sets a dangerous precedent. Every state should have constitutional carry, I would be much happier if states entered into reciprocity agreements with each other, and the General rules of the Road were condensed and explained online for each state.

[Fl0und3rz]

The devil is always in the details, and the enemy of the perfect is not always the good.

Recognition

One small step in the right direction is a recognition bill. This would require states to recognize the permits already issued by the states. True, it would further entrench the existing sidearm permit system, but we have to face the fact that it is already in place, and it’s likely a good first step. It advances the freedom of millions of Americans, puts more honest armed citizens out in public, and we know this deters and prevents crime. It also softens the antis arguments.

For example, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 proposed recognition as alluded to above.

It will not in any way prevent further efforts of citizens of the several states from pushing their states toward constitutional carry, while advancing the rights and liberties of millions of gun owners.

So while I agree that a National Permit system is DOA, lets not hold out for nothing but constitutional carry across the land.

[Special T]

So if your from a constitutional carry state like ID or Vermont do you have to have a pice of paper in another state?

[Fl0und3rz]

That's how that reciprocity bill reads.  Simple fix in response to such a requirement would be for CC states to issue a state certificate of eligibility for CC to everyone eligible.

Or even easier, allow people to print their own.

[Special T]

That's how that reciprocity bill reads.  Simple fix in response to such a requirement would be for CC states to issue a state certificate of eligibility for CC to everyone eligible.

Or even easier, allow people to print their own.

Printing your own would fry the brains of most anti gunners! I love it!

[Fl0und3rz]

http://www.guns.com/2016/12/06/nationwide-reciprocity-bill-ready-to-introduce-in-2017/

[csaaphill]

Personally I don't like needing a state permit either, our second amendment should be our permit. Didn't Idaho just pass that you don't need a state issued permit to carry concealed?
All states should be that way and then be allow nationally but not as a permit.
Since that's not they way, while I don't think the Federal Govt is the way to go I do think you should be able to carry nation wide with what ever state permit you have, or don't have if your state allows.
I know a long shot, but what are the odds that Washington could pass a law like Idaho just did?

[Fl0und3rz]

60/40 against, if past elections are any guide.

[Stein]

60/40 against, if past elections are any guide.

At least that bad, maybe even worse.

Holding out for the perfect solution often leads to having to live with a 10% solution.  Sometimes the 80% solution is the way to go. 

If you are for concealed carry, I can't understand why you would be against something that moves the ball in the direction you want.  Virtually nothing in this country happens all at once, you take what you can get when you can get it and move mountains over time.

[Bean Counter]

For those of us who have paid the pearl of great price, this brings very little benefit and a whole lot of downside. I already have an 80%+ solution where I live now. I can already carry a gun in my state without a permission slip from the government, why would I want to risk setting the precedent that some day your federal legislators may outnumber my federal legislators and reverse that paradise just because you want to borrow a state effect from my state legislators that yours would not do for you? 

For one reason or the next, millions of guns owners chose to live in Seattle (People's Repugnant of), Portlandia, and the Urine Colored State. That is a choice, and along with the infringements that come with the arrangement. Don't like it? Pack up and move. 

[Fl0und3rz]

As noted in the other thread:

For such a big fan of the Constitution, you are not much of a fan of individual rights.  Rather than overly focusing on states rights, vis a vis the federal government (the trees), why not instead focus on the individual rights protected directly by the Constitution (the forest) and as already recognized by the courts.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443143/gun-rights-reciprocity-constitution-may-require-it

In our system of Constitutional governance, regarding the hierarchy of individual and states' rights and federal powers, you seemingly miss the boat by ignoring the individual's preeminent rights. 

Reciprocity would merely entail restating such Constitutional principles, while fully protecting the rights to free interstate travel (without having to give up Constitutionally protected right to self-defense), without creating the federal regulatory scheme associated with a federal CCW permit regime.

A national carry permit is not on the table.  Reciprocity is.  Don't be confused.

[Oh Mah]

Opposing this seems to be the same as opposing the I-591 because we shouldn't need to because of the 2nd.,Well that didn't work out to well did it?I think maybe we should all get together behind the people trying to strengthen our 2nd. which needs our help more these days than ever. 

[Special T]

For those of us who have paid the pearl of great price, this brings very little benefit and a whole lot of downside. I already have an 80%+ solution where I live now. I can already carry a gun in my state without a permission slip from the government, why would I want to risk setting the precedent that some day your federal legislators may outnumber my federal legislators and reverse that paradise just because you want to borrow a state effect from my state legislators that yours would not do for you? 

For one reason or the next, millions of guns owners chose to live in Seattle (People's Repugnant of), Portlandia, and the Urine Colored State. That is a choice, and along with the infringements that come with the arrangement. Don't like it? Pack up and move. 

I have to agree with BC on this one... we need to reinforce states rights.

If this is just a reciprocity agreement I could be OK with it but I'm not sure how it's much different than what is currently available. There are some state that would not accept A Constitutional carry in thier state. CALI OREGON, NEW YORK etc. I'm not sure that is worth fighting for.

I much prefer treating the states like incubators for freedom.

[Oh Mah]

States rights might be worthy if it was the entire state,If when we voted state issues they used a rule like most counties carried in a vote whether it be for elections of state gov. or Initiatives.The way it is now its not the states, It's the metro's within the states that make the rules. 

[Stein]

Try carrying a gun in Illinois or California and then tell me about how the state's power should be strengthened.

[EmeraldBullet]

Special T, Oregon is an open carry state as it is. Getting a concealed carry isn't difficult either, but they don't do the reciprocity thing.

[netcoyote]

Did we learn nothing in the last eight years?

Why on earth would anyone want to cede a firearm regulation over to Federal control? This is extremely dangerous territory. It might sound good now with a Trump presidency and a Republican congress but what happens when we get an Obama 2.0 and a Democrat controlled Congress. They will have a field day with it. They will assume that the states ceded the right to control firearm possession and they will have us exactly where they have been trying to get us...and it will be our own damn fault!

[Fl0und3rz]

You are making the bean blunder.  The jurisdiction to legislate in this sphere derives from the 2A and the right of interstate travel.  Attempts to legislate beyond that is subject to constitutional challenge.

[Special T]

Special T, Oregon is an open carry state as it is. Getting a concealed carry isn't difficult either, but they don't do the reciprocity thing.

Oregon suffers some of the same kind of strangeness that wa does. When I was bow hunting in E or many years ago I OC while hunting and such and never got a sideways glance... not exactly a shocker I know... I will state that the county your carrying in has EVERYTHING TO do with how you will be treated. I wouldn't OC in Seattle anymore than I would in Portland.

[EmeraldBullet]

Special T, Oregon is an open carry state as it is. Getting a concealed carry isn't difficult either, but they don't do the reciprocity thing.

Oregon suffers some of the same kind of strangeness that wa does. When I was bow hunting in E or many years ago I OC while hunting and such and never got a sideways glance... not exactly a shocker I know... I will state that the county your carrying in has EVERYTHING TO do with how you will be treated. I wouldn't OC in Seattle anymore than I would in Portland.

I don't mind the dirty looks open carrying to be honest. In Everett when I open carry at starbucks to get my coffee they always make my drink first too. I agree with what you say about OR, vey similar to Wa. Though even in Jackson County you will get some dirty looks.

[Stein]

Did we learn nothing in the last eight years?

Why on earth would anyone want to cede a firearm regulation over to Federal control? This is extremely dangerous territory. It might sound good now with a Trump presidency and a Republican congress but what happens when we get an Obama 2.0 and a Democrat controlled Congress. They will have a field day with it. They will assume that the states ceded the right to control firearm possession and they will have us exactly where they have been trying to get us...and it will be our own damn fault!
[/quote

What happened in the last eight years?  From my perspective, 2A rights made huge strides forward.  If you think Seattle dems are going to protect your rights better than the feds, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Big money lefties have taken the battle to the state and local level because they understand they have gotten their butts handed to them and it is much easier to buy off a few local and state elections and fund stuff like I594.

I'm not ceding restrictions over to the feds, I am encouraging them to prevent state restrictions from happening through preemption.

[Special T]

Special T, Oregon is an open carry state as it is. Getting a concealed carry isn't difficult either, but they don't do the reciprocity thing.

Oregon suffers some of the same kind of strangeness that wa does. When I was bow hunting in E or many years ago I OC while hunting and such and never got a sideways glance... not exactly a shocker I know... I will state that the county your carrying in has EVERYTHING TO do with how you will be treated. I wouldn't OC in Seattle anymore than I would in Portland.

I don't mind the dirty looks open carrying to be honest. In Everett when I open carry at starbucks to get my coffee they always make my drink first too. I agree with what you say about OR, vey similar to Wa. Though even in Jackson County you will get some dirty looks.

If I were going to OC I'd have to take a couple of days to brush up on the laws and print out a bunch of  informational flyers. I'd want to be a positive influence on the discussion not a confrontational knuckle head looking to make a you tube video.

[EmeraldBullet]

I don't have printed flyers but I always make sure I am familiar with the law when I am doing it, and never try to be confrontational. I do want to exercise my legal rights though, and I enjoy helping people become aware that good guys carry guns to, even ones not in a uniform (not a police officer or military). I agree though that there are a lot of knuckleheads out there that give us all a bad name.

[Fl0und3rz]

The constitution protects a fundamental right of interstate travel. The reciprocity bill on the table appears to be nothing more than a recognition that citizens lawfully exercising their Second Amendment rights need not check them at the border of their state, while simultaneously exercising their right to freely travel interstate.

I understand the tension behind the federalists' objections to the federal encroachment of states' police powers. However, when such encroachment exists - if at all - and/or is in the direction of increasing individual (constitutionally protected) liberties over that of state police powers (which is apparent from the private right of action granted by this act), I think that objection is moot.

That is aside from the point that the federalism objection presupposes that states/municipalities have a legitimate police power in virtually legislating the 2A out of existence in places like CA, Chicago, NYC, etc.

I think the reciprocity bill is well thought out, but for the explicit coverage of constitutional carry states.

It will be interesting to follow the debates.

[biggfish]

I know a long shot, but what are the odds that Washington could pass a law like Idaho just did?

Well if the governor can pass that list of guns he wants banned (all semiautomatic handguns and rifles included) then the odds might be good. It would be pointless since the only firearms you could own at that point would be single shot or single action.

[Special T]

All hope is lost for me on this issue. If Inslee can get ready elected easily there there is NO chance to move forward only defence. Sadly even a good and Decent Govenor like Bryant or Rossi likely would not use up precious political Capitol to roll back restrictions. There are too many  other pressing issues for the state... instead how much tax will be increased and who will get soaked will be the concern.

[netcoyote]

All hope is lost for me on this issue. If Inslee can get ready elected easily there there is NO chance to move forward only defence. Sadly even a good and Decent Govenor like Bryant or Rossi likely would not use up precious political Capitol to roll back restrictions. There are too many  other pressing issues for the state... instead how much tax will be increased and who will get soaked will be the concern.

  As lousy as the CPL is in WA; i.e. no ID value, no training or proficiency requirements, etc. I would be loath to suggest even bringing the subject of ANY changes to the license. The liberals would pounce on it like flies on a carcass. Let this sleeping dog lie.

[Special T]

Washington is a stange animal. If you study it's history  there is a distrust of the feds and those that wish to inject itself into our politics. We really missed the boat in theb80s when we had the chance to be the ID of the west coast. Instead we were snooker Ed by the smooth talking of import California residents and import politicians.

[hunter399]

Sadly I agree that where on our way to California laws ,weapons bans ,ammo back ground checks,and a lot of the weapons we want to keep won't be called sporting guns.Was watching this YouTube the other day it kinda shows what some people that don't owne firearms think about different guns,and how fast they will vote or sign something to take your gun rights away.

[snake]

Conceal Carry Permit is a joke. Dont pull a gun unless you are going to shoot someone to save your own life. No permit needed.

[Bean Counter]

Special T, Oregon is an open carry state as it is. Getting a concealed carry isn't difficult either, but they don't do the reciprocity thing.

Oregon suffers some of the same kind of strangeness that wa does. When I was bow hunting in E or many years ago I OC while hunting and such and never got a sideways glance... not exactly a shocker I know... I will state that the county your carrying in has EVERYTHING TO do with how you will be treated. I wouldn't OC in Seattle anymore than I would in Portland.

I don't mind the dirty looks open carrying to be honest. In Everett when I open carry at starbucks to get my coffee they always make my drink first too. I agree with what you say about OR, vey similar to Wa. Though even in Jackson County you will get some dirty looks.

I love it when OTHER people open carry, so thanks! 

[Bean Counter]

Sadly I agree that where on our way to California laws ,weapons bans ,ammo back ground checks,and a lot of the weapons we want to keep won't be called sporting guns.Was watching this YouTube the other day it kinda shows what some people that don't owne firearms think about different guns,and how fast they will vote or sign something to take your gun rights away.

Dude that video was awesome!  But also depressing  There are people dying in emergency rooms who desperately need oxygen that those Flag Burners are breathing... through their mouth of course.