Strange ffl experience. The bullet hole in Spokane valley

[BULLBLASTER]

Just had a strange experience at an ffl for a transfer.
Went in with the rifle waited for the buyer the guy at the counter writes some stuff down and asks for my ID. When the buyer gets there hey run the check and it comes back delayed. So the buyer wants to cancel the sale and get his moneu back

I say ok I'll just take the gun and sell to someone else. The ffl guy tells me that as soon as I walked through that door with the gun to sell the shop now has possession and owns it and I would have to pay a transfer fee and go through a check to get my own gun back. He then says every check they have done the last few weeks has been delayed. So I would have to wait to get my own gun back.

Is this right? Should he have told me the info about them basically owning the gun as soon as I walk in with it?

The buyer decided to keep it and wait on the check but I wanted to check here also.

[jrebel]

Tagging....doesn't sound right. 

[BULLBLASTER]

Also now I'm thinking that it's weird I never got a slip saying that I brought the gun in. What happens if he buyer check is denied? Does the ffl have to give my gun back to me? How can I prove i took it there?

[Bob33]

Tell him to read the RCW (and don't do business there again.)

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.113

(3) Where neither party to a prospective firearms transaction is a licensed dealer, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale or transfer through a licensed dealer as follows:
(a) The seller or transferor shall deliver the firearm to a licensed dealer to process the sale or transfer as if it is selling or transferring the firearm from its inventory to the purchaser or transferee, except that the unlicensed seller or transferor may remove the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted. If the seller or transferor removes the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted, the purchaser or transferee and the seller or transferor shall return to the business premises of the licensed dealer and the seller or transferor shall again deliver the firearm to the licensed dealer prior to completing the sale or transfer.

[quarterstaff]

According to the Pawn Shop Owner where I have bought several guns your gun has to be in their possession 24 hours before it needs a background check for the original owner to reclaim it.

  This was before I594 and I was offering it for sale or trade and he didn't want it for his shop but knew a guy who would be interested and offered to hold onto it and get ahold of said prospective buyer as long as it didn't end up being in his shop over 24 hrs.

It sounds s though this shop you're dealing with is looking to pad their fee intake.

[BULLBLASTER]

Thanks bob. I have contacted the buyer to see what he wants to do.

Also to spread the work the shop is "the bullet hole llc" located on sprague street in Spokane valley.

[2labs]

I did one last Saturday,and zero issues?

[Boss .300 winmag]

Hhhhmmmm sounds like an ignorant shyster to me.

[dscubame]

Consider calling the feds on that for sure.  Could be something going on that we don't know about.  I saw there advertising the FFL outside their building if it is the one I noticed the other day that I think it is.  Never noticed the sign before I think it was just put up.

[BULLBLASTER]

The buyer said he just wants to leave it be until the bg check comes back. I think it's really his call at this point. I have the money. I did ask him to keep me posted and I'll help if something goes sideways.

But yes I will be avoiding that shop in the future and telling everyone my experiences.

[Karl Blanchard]

Tagging

[jay.sharkbait]

He's a moron.

He can log it back out to you without a 4473 and with no wait.

Just another counter monkey making up his own rules.

[BULLBLASTER]

I was thinking it wasn't right that they could just take my gun and not give it back. He essentially confiscated it...

I'll update this thread with the outcome. I told the buyer that I would help out and make sure we are both made whole at the end of it. Most of me wants to March in there tomorrow and demand the rifle back until the check is complete but the buyer wants to wait it out.

Thanks for the info.

[Jburke]

I'd definitely avoid them in the future.  I've never heard of them, until now at least.  I've never done a private party transfer, but I have bought guns at multiple places in town and have always had good experiences at the double eagle pawn shops in the area.  Also Bill down at Best Buy Surplus on E Sprague is a good guy and I'd highly recommend him as well.

[outdooraddict]

Just go to Keith at northwest pawn and gun on pines in the valley. Have done multiple transactions and very helpfull and easy to work witj

[MtnMuley]

Wow, you handled that welol. I would have blew a gasket!

[csaaphill]

Just had a strange experience at an ffl for a transfer.
Went in with the rifle waited for the buyer the guy at the counter writes some stuff down and asks for my ID. When the buyer gets there hey run the check and it comes back delayed. So the buyer wants to cancel the sale and get his moneu back

I say ok I'll just take the gun and sell to someone else. The ffl guy tells me that as soon as I walked through that door with the gun to sell the shop now has possession and owns it and I would have to pay a transfer fee and go through a check to get my own gun back. He then says every check they have done the last few weeks has been delayed. So I would have to wait to get my own gun back.

Is this right? Should he have told me the info about them basically owning the gun as soon as I walk in with it?

The buyer decided to keep it and wait on the check but I wanted to check here also.

there's a similar story on here about some guy not able to get his guns back. even though he passed a BG check just before that but is still waiting to get his guns back.
did the FFL have possession of the gun at the time or did you? If you did I'd of kept it in my hands and left he starts to block you tell him to back off or he's taking a stump back.
Not sure but don't; think they can to that but....

[HntnFsh]

Sounds like theft of a firearm to me. Might be worth getting law enforcement involved!

[JDHasty]

Sounds like theft of a firearm to me. Might be worth getting law enforcement involved!

Theft by deception, and being a "professional" he has a DUTY to know the law. 

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[BULLBLASTER]

I feel like the shop should have been clear on what was going on. I asked if they could do the transfer and if I could bring the gun in and let the buyer look st it there they said no problem they already had t in their book before the buyer had even showed up! I had no idea what he was even doing! Just a shady deal all around. I haven't done enough transfers to really understand and know what it all means or needs to happen.

[jay.sharkbait]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

[CAMPMEAT]

Wow, you handled that welol. I would have blew a gasket!

Ah, the joys of liberal, anti-gun, Washingtonfornia...

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[BULLBLASTER]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?

[Henrydog]

I've been to the Bullet Hole once, and was shocked the guy could stay in business, not much of a shop.  NW Collector Pawn on Pines are top notch guys..I have done plenty of business with them.

[BULLBLASTER]

I have also done and will continue to do plenty of business with Keith at collectors he is great to work with but I believe (could be wrong) he is on the order of $60 dollars for a transfer. That is not the subject of this thread. I was just trying to save the buyer some cash on his transfer assuming they would be the same.

[7mag.]

I probably would have ended up in jail, but I would have gone home with my rifle.

[JDHasty]

I probably would have ended up in jail, but I would have gone home with my rifle.

+1

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?

https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/download

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[BULLBLASTER]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?

https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/download

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Thanks fungunnin.

[Mossy]

Their shop has been talked about on SGT lately with similar experiences including charging 25% of a firearm if a buyer fails a background check.

[BULLBLASTER]

I really should have done some homework. But couldn't get ahold of lower river tactical to go there for the transfer and I remember seeing a sign at the bullet hole.   

[dscubame]

Best Buy Surplus as previously mentioned I too have used with an excellent experience every time.