bench rest shooting techniques--help needed pls

[wooltie]

Rod makers still use bronze ferrules - even with their carbon fiber rods - stupid.  I cover them with heatshrink so they don't contaminate my patches otherwise its hard to tell when the copper is gone.   Nylon brushes, no bronze anywhere brush ten strokes with a copper remover follow with a couple wet patches repeat until no more blue.

Thanks.  I just did two sessions of hoppes, then Sweets -- one to remove the carbon, the other to remove the copper.  I used a nylon brush to scrub the Sweets, and let the Sweets soak in the barrel for like five minutes, then scrub, then wet patch, then scrub, etc., then dry patch.

I can still see trace amounts of copper on the lands at the muzzle, which look like streaks of copper as opposed to like, flat, wide layered sections of copper.  But I see no blue coloring on the wet and dry patches when using Sweets. 

I suppose I could keep repeat the hoppes, then sweets routine, but I guess that's all I can get out if the wet patches show no signs of bluing.

How fresh is that Sweets?  Patches should come out slightly blue if you can see copper in the barrel.

Oh it's old -- like early 2000's. 

[JDHasty]

Rod makers still use bronze ferrules - even with their carbon fiber rods - stupid.  I cover them with heatshrink so they don't contaminate my patches otherwise its hard to tell when the copper is gone.   Nylon brushes, no bronze anywhere brush ten strokes with a copper remover follow with a couple wet patches repeat until no more blue.

Thanks.  I just did two sessions of hoppes, then Sweets -- one to remove the carbon, the other to remove the copper.  I used a nylon brush to scrub the Sweets, and let the Sweets soak in the barrel for like five minutes, then scrub, then wet patch, then scrub, etc., then dry patch.

I can still see trace amounts of copper on the lands at the muzzle, which look like streaks of copper as opposed to like, flat, wide layered sections of copper.  But I see no blue coloring on the wet and dry patches when using Sweets. 

I suppose I could keep repeat the hoppes, then sweets routine, but I guess that's all I can get out if the wet patches show no signs of bluing.

How fresh is that Sweets?  Patches should come out slightly blue if you can see copper in the barrel.

Oh it's old -- like early 2000's.

You need some fresh stuff.  Luckily it isn't as hard to come by as it was for a while. 

[wooltie]

I used fresh Sweets yesterday but it was ineffective --  no blue patches.  Instead, I continued scrubbing using Hoppes 9 and a bronze brush which seemed to remove a lot of carbon and the brown/copper was noticeably less on the lands at the muzzle.  I couldn't remove all of it but I could certainly see the steel on the lands.  Never saw bluing on the wet or dry patches.

Went to the range today. I fired one shot, then wet patch, scrub, wet patch, dry patch, etc., to clean the bore after each shot.  I repeated this for about 15 shots, at 100 yards.  Still no improvement after installing a Timney and thoroughly cleaning the barrel.

Using 150g factory Interlocks, the first two shots were 5" directly high of center.  Each shot about 1" apart.  Third shot was 4-4.5" high of center, about 1" right.  So, I dialed the scope down for 5".  Fourth shot was touching center.  Okay good.  Fifth shot was 2" low, 1" left of center.  Sixth shot was  4" low and 1.5" right of center.  I grabbed a different box of 150g factory interlocks, but saw no change in performance.

So I switched to 180g factory accubonds.

I had to laugh because the first shot was 5" directly LOW of center.  I wasted no time and dialed the scope back up for 5", and the next shot was less than 1" from center, so good enough.  The next three shots were 1" high of center, 1" high and 1" left of center, and 1" high and 1" right of center.  I ended the day on that.

The scope on the rifle is a leup VX-3i, 3-10.  I almost want to swap scopes to see if that's contributing to the issue.

I never properly broke in the barrel, and I've 2-300 rounds through the barrel and never cleaned with a copper removing agent, so so that's on me.

At the range today, the brown/copper initially appeared more in the grooves than in the lands, then moved to building up onto the lands.  I'm no scholar at this so I have no idea what this means.  But now the lands look like they looked a few days ago, before I deep cleaned them.  And I just finished using Sweets and hoppes 9, cleaning here at home.  Might need a new bronze brush.

[cboom]

I used fresh Sweets yesterday but it was ineffective --  no blue patches.  Instead, I continued scrubbing using Hoppes 9 and a bronze brush which seemed to remove a lot of carbon and the brown/copper was noticeably less on the lands at the muzzle.  I couldn't remove all of it but I could certainly see the steel on the lands.  Never saw bluing on the wet or dry patches.

Went to the range today. I fired one shot, then wet patch, scrub, wet patch, dry patch, etc., to clean the bore after each shot.  I repeated this for about 15 shots, at 100 yards.  Still no improvement after installing a Timney and thoroughly cleaning the barrel.

Using 150g factory Interlocks, the first two shots were 5" directly high of center.  Each shot about 1" apart.  Third shot was 4-4.5" high of center, about 1" right.  So, I dialed the scope down for 5".  Fourth shot was touching center.  Okay good.  Fifth shot was 2" low, 1" left of center.  Sixth shot was  4" low and 1.5" right of center.  I grabbed a different box of 150g factory interlocks, but saw no change in performance.

So I switched to 180g factory accubonds.

I had to laugh because the first shot was 5" directly LOW of center.  I wasted no time and dialed the scope back up for 5", and the next shot was less than 1" from center, so good enough.  The next three shots were 1" high of center, 1" high and 1" left of center, and 1" high and 1" right of center.  I ended the day on that.

The scope on the rifle is a leup VX-3i, 3-10.  I almost want to swap scopes to see if that's contributing to the issue.

I never properly broke in the barrel, and I've 2-300 rounds through the barrel and never cleaned with a copper removing agent, so so that's on me.

At the range today, the brown/copper initially appeared more in the grooves than in the lands, then moved to building up onto the lands.  I'm no scholar at this so I have no idea what this means.  But now the lands look like they looked a few days ago, before I deep cleaned them.  And I just finished using Sweets and hoppes 9, cleaning here at home.  Might need a new bronze brush.

That's a lot of copper in that barrel! Do your self a favor and get a bottle of the Barnes stuff and follow the instructions. It will eventually clean it up. That Sweets stuff is garbage.

[Jolten]

Wooltie.... That is a ungodly amount of copper. I've sent 50rounds down the Savage I bought from you and barely had any copper build up.

[JLS]

Use Wipe Out.

I have barrels I've never done a break in procedure on and they shoot about .75 MOA.  I typically shoot 100 or so rounds between cleaning.

[JDHasty]

I used fresh Sweets yesterday but it was ineffective --  no blue patches.  Instead, I continued scrubbing using Hoppes 9 and a bronze brush which seemed to remove a lot of carbon and the brown/copper was noticeably less on the lands at the muzzle.  I couldn't remove all of it but I could certainly see the steel on the lands.  Never saw bluing on the wet or dry patches.

Went to the range today. I fired one shot, then wet patch, scrub, wet patch, dry patch, etc., to clean the bore after each shot.  I repeated this for about 15 shots, at 100 yards.  Still no improvement after installing a Timney and thoroughly cleaning the barrel.

Using 150g factory Interlocks, the first two shots were 5" directly high of center.  Each shot about 1" apart.  Third shot was 4-4.5" high of center, about 1" right.  So, I dialed the scope down for 5".  Fourth shot was touching center.  Okay good.  Fifth shot was 2" low, 1" left of center.  Sixth shot was  4" low and 1.5" right of center.  I grabbed a different box of 150g factory interlocks, but saw no change in performance.

So I switched to 180g factory accubonds.

I had to laugh because the first shot was 5" directly LOW of center.  I wasted no time and dialed the scope back up for 5", and the next shot was less than 1" from center, so good enough.  The next three shots were 1" high of center, 1" high and 1" left of center, and 1" high and 1" right of center.  I ended the day on that.

The scope on the rifle is a leup VX-3i, 3-10.  I almost want to swap scopes to see if that's contributing to the issue.

I never properly broke in the barrel, and I've 2-300 rounds through the barrel and never cleaned with a copper removing agent, so so that's on me.

At the range today, the brown/copper initially appeared more in the grooves than in the lands, then moved to building up onto the lands.  I'm no scholar at this so I have no idea what this means.  But now the lands look like they looked a few days ago, before I deep cleaned them.  And I just finished using Sweets and hoppes 9, cleaning here at home.  Might need a new bronze brush.

That's a heck of a lot of copper.  It is going to be a lot of work getting it out.  The Sweets should come out blue and if it isn't something is not right with it 

[Magnum_Willys]

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/solvents-degreasers/bore-cleaning-paste/j-b-non-embedding-bore-cleaning-compound-prod1160.aspx

[wooltie]

The picture above was taken at the range after 3-4 shots. The picture below was taken at home after some cleaning.

[Magnum_Willys]

Looks like a candidate for firelapping...........

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,216085.msg2879072/topicseen.html#msg2879072

you sure your bases are tight ?  Letting barrel cool to similar temps between shots? 

[wooltie]

Looks like a candidate for firelapping...........

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,216085.msg2879072/topicseen.html#msg2879072

you sure your bases are tight ?  Letting barrel cool to similar temps between shots?

Yes, I use a FAT wrench to torque everything to spec -- stock, bases, rings.  Nothing moves.  I would take a shot, then clean the barrel.  So there was like 3-5 min between shots.  After 3-4 shots I observed all the copper in the barrel and took that picture.  Subsequent shots and cleaning seemed to remove the copper and there was less copper in the barrel by the end.  Unless the interlock bullets just foul the barrel like crazy.

Using Sweets and running wet patches seemed to work somewhat -- there was some bluing on the patches.  It's funny I'd run a wet Sweet patch through and it'd come out with some blue, then I'd scrub the bore using a nylon brush, then I'd run a dry patch through, which would come out rather clean and no blue.  That Sweet stuff is pretty thick compared to solvent, which makes me think that the nylon brush actually removes some of the chemicals from the bore -- as opposed to using wet patches and letting the chemicals suck up the copper. 

I'll go back at it today.  Spent probably an hour yesterday going back and forth between Sweets and solvent.

[JDHasty]

I have spent hours w/my 300 Wby once when I shot it w/o cleaning it for about thirty shots.  I learned my lesson. 

[wooltie]

I have spent hours w/my 300 Wby once when I shot it w/o cleaning it for about thirty shots.  I learned my lesson.

Should a barrel copper up after only a few shots?  I was surprised and also really pissed off when I saw all that bronze in the bore after only a few shots, and after hours of cleaning it the day before.

[JDHasty]

I have spent hours w/my 300 Wby once when I shot it w/o cleaning it for about thirty shots.  I learned my lesson.

Should a barrel copper up after only a few shots?  I was surprised and also really pissed off when I saw all that bronze in the bore after only a few shots, and after hours of cleaning it the day before.

No.  But my 300 Wby does and it especially does with the old Partitions that I use.  However that rifle will shoot three - five shots out of a clean barrel into well under an inch group.  So I still like it just fine.  I don't know what it is about that rifle, I don't have any others that copper foul like that one does, but I treasure that barrel and hope to never have to replace it. 

[wooltie]

I have spent hours w/my 300 Wby once when I shot it w/o cleaning it for about thirty shots.  I learned my lesson.

Should a barrel copper up after only a few shots?  I was surprised and also really pissed off when I saw all that bronze in the bore after only a few shots, and after hours of cleaning it the day before.

No.  But my 300 Wby does and it especially does with the old Partitions that I use.  However that rifle will shoot three - five shots out of a clean barrel into well under an inch group.  So I still like it just fine.  I don't know what it is about that rifle, I don't have any others that copper foul like that one does, but I treasure that barrel and hope to never have to replace it.

Thanks JD.  I had a .308 vanguard s2 once, which just about never copper'd up.  i mean, I don't recall seeing bronze in the barrel, ever.

I'll get this bore super clean, then return to the range and monitor the bore after each shot -- clean, take picture, shoot, clean, take picture, etc.  Just to see what the bore looks like.  Maybe that'll tell me something.

That sucks though if your shots open up considerably after only 3-5 shots.