Nipple exposed to the elements

[HoofsandWings]

I was at the range today and talk about pushing the envelope for nipple exposure.
I saw one today that had a square hole above the nipple that you can cover with a quarter. A piece of tape would be all that was needed to keep the elements out.

[Magnum_Willys]

Vortek strike fire is like that. Lil bit of camo tape seals completely. That with balloon over muzzle and good for all day in the rain. Not sure if allowed during muzzy only seasons but works great rest of the time.

[Stein]

The game warden at my son’s hunter ed class said he would ticked taped smoke poles.  They have to be open.


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[Bob33]

The game warden at my son’s hunter ed class said he would ticked taped smoke poles.  They have to be open.


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I believe he is wrong. Tape is not an "integral part of the weapon proper."

(a) Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper."

[j_h_nimrod]

The regs are a bit ambiguous and could be interpreted (incorrectly) to mean you can't tape over the opening for cap. I have not delved into the WAC to see if the rule is more clearly defined there. It pisses me off when gamies decide to interpret the laws however they want.

Taped at the coffee stand means there is probably a cap in there an that is illegal.

[Bob33]

The regs are a bit ambiguous and could be interpreted (incorrectly) to mean you can't tape over the opening for cap. I have not delved into the WAC to see if the rule is more clearly defined there. It pisses me off when gamies decide to interpret the laws however they want.

Taped at the coffee stand means there is probably a cap in there an that is illegal.

I quoted the WAC. 

[adamR]

The game warden at my son’s hunter ed class said he would ticked taped smoke poles.  They have to be open.


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I believe he is wrong. Tape is not an "integral part of the weapon proper."

(a) Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper."

Wouldn't the "must be visible" portion be violated with a piece of tape?  Maybe that's how he justifies giving the ticket?

[Zuus]

So if I hide my rifle under my poncho when it rains, it is not visible anymore and therefore ticketable? I'm thinking NO, but according to the strict gamie it is.

[Jellymon]

The game warden at my son’s hunter ed class said he would ticked taped smoke poles.  They have to be open.


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I believe he is wrong. Tape is not an "integral part of the weapon proper."

(a) Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper."

Wouldn't the "must be visible" portion be violated with a piece of tape?  Maybe that's how he justifies giving the ticket?

Using Scotch tape it would still be visible.   

[JimmyHoffa]

So if I hide my rifle under my poncho when it rains, it is not visible anymore and therefore ticketable? I'm thinking NO, but according to the strict gamie it is.

He'll probably write you up for concealed long gun. 

[Sabotloader]

We have covered this a couple of times and somebody even contacted the 0ffice for Washington Fish and Wildlife

If when the gun locked, loaded, and ready to fire - no integral part of the rifle is covering the nipple.  If a hunter chooses to use a cover of some form it is legal as is not a integral part of the rifle.

This is legal





Even if the wrap were black tape.

If someone better than I wanted to use the search feature - they probably could find the post that quoted the State Official.  Many printed the information to carry in the field.

[huntnfmly]

 

[Zuus]

I like it!

[JDHasty]

We have covered this a couple of times and somebody even contacted the Chief LEO for Washington

If when the gun locked, loaded, and ready to fire - no integral part of the rifle is covering the nipple.  If a hunter chooses to use a cover of some form it is legal as is not a integral part of the rifle.

This is legal





Even if the wrap were black tape

Yes it is.  I forwarded that photo to WDFW and this is their response:

 On Monday, March 27, 2017 9:09 AM, Reportpoaching (DFW) <poaching@dfw.wa.gov> wrote:


Mr. Hasty-
 
I spoke with multiple officers and we came to the consensus that yes that would be legal because the tape isn’t considered an integral part of the weapon proper. Therefore it falls out of the verbiage described in the hunting pamphlet.
 
Good luck hunting!
 
Thank you,
Lexie

***************

I made a PDF of the email and posted it here for others to carry a copy when we discussed this back in March. 

[Sabotloader]

Thank you JDHasty

I knew it was out there someplace

[Stein]

I quoted a state official as well.  Actually, there were two wardens there and the discussion was around the same thing mentioned above.  The WAC should be updated as everyone agreed that it was hard to apply in situations like tape or flaps of leather which are both common.

Their argument went back to the spirit of the law which was that the primer was exposed to the weather.  When you wrap it in saran wrap, it is no more exposed to the weather than a closed system.

If you have it tucked under your arm, it is still exposed.

On the flip side, you could drill a tiny hole in a closed system and it would then be "exposed."  The law was poorly written and likely there are various interpretations around there.

I have no marbles in the game, just letting people know there are different views on the topic.

[Sabotloader]

All three PacNorWest States have the same rule and all three interpret the rule as a part 'Integral' to the rifle. Man weather-proofing black powder rifles for hunting - it is as old as time.

Believe me this has been discussed in all three states at the highest level.

[Dan-o]

Agreed.

I've hunted Muzzy in this state for over 30 years.    I routinely tape the muzzle and cover the nipple...... I've been checked many times.  Never an issue.

[ctwiggs1]

What's funny is that when I e-mailed WDFW, and explained exactly what it was that I would be doing, they told me it was illegal. 

"Thank you for contacting WDFW. As the other part of the regulation states it must be visible and exposed to the weather. So according to one of our sergeants and one of our officers, the things that you refer to would render them not visible and also no longer exposed to the elements. So, the answer to your question is no, you may not cover it with a “gun condom” or a piece of duct tape.

They're absolutely wrong, based on the WAC. That being said, you may have to take a ticket to court to prove it.

[ctwiggs1]

I quoted a state official as well.  Actually, there were two wardens there and the discussion was around the same thing mentioned above.  The WAC should be updated as everyone agreed that it was hard to apply in situations like tape or flaps of leather which are both common.

Their argument went back to the spirit of the law which was that the primer was exposed to the weather.  When you wrap it in saran wrap, it is no more exposed to the weather than a closed system.

If you have it tucked under your arm, it is still exposed.

On the flip side, you could drill a tiny hole in a closed system and it would then be "exposed."  The law was poorly written and likely there are various interpretations around there.

I have no marbles in the game, just letting people know there are different views on the topic.

That's definitely not the spirit of the said law.  The spirit of the law is to use lower-tech weapons for the muzzleloader season.  They're trying to eliminate modern primers and telescopic sights.  If they wanted the nipple to be exposed PERIOD, they could easily have said "The nipple must always be exposed to the elements". 

I mean seriously, does anybody really think Daniel Boone went around with the nipple exposed??

[birddogdad]

clear as mud!

[ctwiggs1]

Honestly I do think the law is pretty clear.

I think the game wardens who misinterpret it probably just aren't very familiar with muzzleloaders. 

[reelamin]

The game warden at my son’s hunter ed class said he would ticked taped smoke poles.  They have to be open.


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If he did ticket someone he would be 100% wrong.   You can cover up the breach area if you want! 

[Bob33]

The confusion comes from the WAC having two requirements: the cap must (1) "be visible", and (2) not "capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper".

I don't agree but I could understand a nitpicking officer (and judge) arguing that opaque tape which makes the cap not visible violates the first requirement. Clear saran wrap couldn't be considered in violation of the first requirement or the second.

"Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper."