Duplicity in the wolf debate

[JLS]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

I understand that, and I'm not worried about being outnumbered by left wingers.  I am concerned about a citizen initiative in regards to wolf hunting.


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[bearpaw]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

I understand that, and I'm not worried about being outnumbered by left wingers.  I am concerned about a citizen initiative in regards to wolf hunting.


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I knew that would happen before the Commission ever adopted a wolf plan. You should expect that in Washington, partnering with CNW and making them stronger is certainly not going to encourage wolf groups to not try an initiative! 

[bearpaw]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

You do live in WA, right? A wolf plan so outrageous in its scope as to prevent eventual management. Other predator management which is not designed around science. A governor who stacks the wildlife Commission with animal rights groups and also panders to those groups for campaign donations. And a population of hunters less than 4% of our state's population. 

Hunters do have some good political allies, he is correct about that.

[wolfbait]

Ranching and hunting are just the start, from there it travels down to everyone who use to enjoy pubic lands.

Remember when CNW and WDFW were doing the wolf push in the late 1980's and 90's, and then the USFWS decided to introduce wolves into the three states that would be hardest to push wolves on once the true wolf impacts came out? And look at us today, with 22 years of history as to what wolves do,  WDFW and fools pretending it's a bran new wolf, needing new studies that have already been done several times over. It's like the stupid leading the ignorant, living in their own little bubble.

Today more of the public is up to speed on the wolves and the impacts, they have come to realize they were lied to by many groups, and their sentiment is SS.



And now the grizzly bear introduction will follow the same bogus trail of lies, the only difference, there are far fewer people being fooled and there is more of a push back.

If things don't change the only wolf control will have to come from the public, the USFWS, WDFW along with their fake environmental partners are agenda driven, an agenda where public lands are off limits and funding for WDFW etc. will come from the tax payer not hunting etc..

[Bushcraft]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

You do live in WA, right? A wolf plan so outrageous in its scope as to prevent eventual management. Other predator management which is not designed around science. A governor who stacks the wildlife Commission with animal rights groups and also panders to those groups for campaign donations. And a population of hunters less than 4% of our state's population. 

I do. And I'm intimately aware of some of the more egregious fiascos that have taken place over the years, and more recently.  I submit that some of what was more or less allowed to happen rests squarely on the shoulders of sportsmen and women who lacked both the organization and strong sense of unity and purpose that a relatively small group of rabidly leftist enviro-wackos have enjoyed.  However, myself and other influential people within our ranks (and the ranks of our political allies) are working hard to remedy that situation and have had a fair amount of success.

With improved organization, unity and purpose we are increasingly able to leverage significant resources to hit MUCH harder than our single digit minority percentage might otherwise imply.  Big things are coming down the pike...stay tuned!

Regards,

Allen Ernst
SCI Regional Representative

[pianoman9701]

I sincerely hope you're right with your predictions. I suspect you're not, however. We just don't have the support from the WDFW and the rest of our government to help ensure the future of hunting and not spread false information. They could well have weighed in on hounding and baiting as the only controllable and dependable means of harvest for bears and cougars but they didn't and the misinformationists won the day. This hasn't changed at all and that's readily apparent with the wolf program. The NE corner of our state is being hammered while the Seattleites are blissfully unaware of the damage these eaters are doing to ranches, ungulates, and communities which depend on hunting and ranching.

[ribka]

Thank you for your input!

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

You do live in WA, right? A wolf plan so outrageous in its scope as to prevent eventual management. Other predator management which is not designed around science. A governor who stacks the wildlife Commission with animal rights groups and also panders to those groups for campaign donations. And a population of hunters less than 4% of our state's population. 

I do. And I'm intimately aware of some of the more egregious fiascos that have taken place over the years, and more recently.  I submit that some of what was more or less allowed to happen rests squarely on the shoulders of sportsmen and women who lacked both the organization and strong sense of unity and purpose that a relatively small group of rabidly leftist enviro-wackos have enjoyed.  However, myself and other influential people within our ranks (and the ranks of our political allies) are working hard to remedy that situation and have had a fair amount of success.

With improved organization, unity and purpose we are increasingly able to leverage significant resources to hit MUCH harder than our single digit minority percentage might otherwise imply.  Big things are coming down the pike...stay tuned!

Regards,

Allen Ernst
SCI Regional Representative

[ribka]

Thanks bearpaw I feel like one of the few on here who understands what the real threat is

In a correspondence with Mr. Gunnel,  the communications director of CNW,  I brought up  that moose populations in BC, Alberta, Idaho, Montana and Washington had been adversely affected  by the exploding wolf populations. He responded with more misinformation and blamed the shrinking moose populations on ticks.

be very vigilant dealing with CNW and I hope organizations like SCI and RMEF can start stepping up and help sportsmen

It's so easy to see how CNW is cleverly posting little tidbits here and there about how they are helping rural communities and ranchers saying how this helps people and wolves. No doubt they are laughing behind the scenes and patting themselves on the back cheering how they have so cleverly manipulated wolf introduction.

I can tell you this, rural communities lost millions of dollars from hunters who quit coming and by livestock being eaten when wolves over populated in Idaho and Montana, now it's happening in WA. Mark my words, you will see fewer moose permits in WA just about every year until wolf numbers are greatly decreased, which will probably never happen. At least 50% to 60% of the moose are already gone, there are wolf tracks in the trails where there used to be moose tracks.

I used to tell my moose hunters we will see 5 to 10 moose per day, now I don't even want to guide moose hunters in some units because I know it might be tough to find 1 moose on a 5 day hunt!

[JLS]

http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyles/recreation/montana-wyoming-trying-to-understand-why-moose-populations-are-plummeting/article_cf1fcb02-9699-56d8-9b34-9b297fd4dc5f.html

Good article on moose declines.

Certainly wolves eat moose.  Ticks are a very significant cause of mortality in WA moose.

[KFhunter]

fascinating - global warming and ticks, whoda thunk?

[JLS]

fascinating - global warming and ticks, whoda thunk?

Do you disagree with the article?


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[Bob33]

fascinating - global warming and ticks, whoda thunk?

Ticks a very serious problem for moose in the Northeast.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/01/13/winter-ticks-exact-heavy-toll-new-england-moose/PmpQ3QAHm9C1imAxkzMhDM/story.html

An insidious pest is killing about 70 percent of moose calves across Maine and New Hampshire, and their deadly work is being aided by warming temperatures and shorter winters that allow the parasites to survive longer, scientists believe.

They are winter ticks, which attach themselves to a single moose by the tens of thousands. Adult females can expand to the size of a grape and engorge themselves with up to four milliliters of blood.

“The moose are being literally drained of blood. This is about as disgusting as it gets out there,” said Pete Pekins, chairman of the Natural Resources Department at the University of New Hampshire.

...

[KFhunter]

fascinating - global warming and ticks, whoda thunk?

Do you disagree with the article?

no, climate change and parasites have been around far longer than mans meddling (putting in wolves) and isn't part of my frustration.  My frustration is declining moose in wolf stricken areas which the article does allude too before it refocuses on global warming.

[KFhunter]

I would support helicopter darting moose, darts that inject ivomec 

[huntnphool]

fascinating - global warming and ticks, whoda thunk?

Ticks a very serious problem for moose in the Northeast.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/01/13/winter-ticks-exact-heavy-toll-new-england-moose/PmpQ3QAHm9C1imAxkzMhDM/story.html

An insidious pest is killing about 70 percent of moose calves across Maine and New Hampshire, and their deadly work is being aided by warming temperatures and shorter winters that allow the parasites to survive longer, scientists believe.

They are winter ticks, which attach themselves to a single moose by the tens of thousands. Adult females can expand to the size of a grape and engorge themselves with up to four milliliters of blood.

“The moose are being literally drained of blood. This is about as disgusting as it gets out there,” said Pete Pekins, chairman of the Natural Resources Department at the University of New Hampshire.

...

 This actually makes perfect sense, since so many of the moose are sick with tick related illness, and wolves only attack and kill the sick/weak.