328 - 329 True Spike Question

[7mmfan]

According to wdfw officers ive talked with, true spikes aren't breeder bulls. They say the branched bulls are more likely to try to breed than the baby true spikes.  makes sense to me. Either way if we conserve the bulls they will be killed by the natives no matter what because their ancestors killed them many moons ago up there. Lets manage the herd by allowing the natives to only harvest cows and our bull to cow ratio will be golden in a few years

Except "we" have no say in what the tribe does. It's a federal issue, and the feds won't touch it.

[GreggHunts2hard4u]

Is the true spike is working perfectly the answer is no. But look at the bright side that unit went from 3-5 big bull tags a year to 21-23 tags a year so the system is working on getting the carry over they need.


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Well put! Wonder how many of those big bull tags get filled? I know an old guy hunting solo  that was still searching for a branched bull on 11/2 he had been up there since the tag had opened

[time2hunt]

To me some of the issue with the illegal kills is that the unit is a complete zoo. When elk are seen the the ATV , four wheel drives, horses and what means of travel begin the chase and a lot hunters are shooting before looking at there target. 


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[GreggHunts2hard4u]

According to wdfw officers ive talked with, true spikes aren't breeder bulls. They say the branched bulls are more likely to try to breed than the baby true spikes.  makes sense to me. Either way if we conserve the bulls they will be killed by the natives no matter what because their ancestors killed them many moons ago up there. Lets manage the herd by allowing the natives to only harvest cows and our bull to cow ratio will be golden in a few years

Except "we" have no say in what the tribe does. It's a federal issue, and the feds won't touch it.

Believe me i know. They know they cant ve touched either, a few years back we called in a group of them chasing a herd down the middle of a clearing off any designated road shooting out the back and killing multiple elk right in front of us. Sergeant got out his ticket book, they said you cant touch us youll have to talk to our tribal police. Sergeant said i can write you a ticket for driving off road and that was it.

[yakimanoob]

For my early archery bull hunt I was working a heard of 100 cows and 13 5pt or better bulls.  On the last day of the hunt I was in a herd of 200 elk and I counted 29 6x6 bulls go over the ridge.

You quit yer braggin'.   

[JJJ]

I can see that there are two sides to this fence, and both sides have some VERY valid points.... my only concern is that many 1x2's that I have seen are just baaaarely a 2.... awefully hard to see in the moment, -- I'm not making excuses for the lack of judgement when these people pull the trigger in haste; I'm just stating that it IS happening. -I also agree that there will still be irresponsible people shooting 2 x 2's  if we raise it to 3 point or better or whatever points they may decide on. I would hope to believe that an ethical hunter who would see an older bull with 2x2 would realize that easier? ... most, not all,  2x2's have a taller rack and prominent points.-- of course those that would still harvest an animal like that in a spike only unit would still pull the trigger on just about any bull? .... very frustrating-- just putting out food for thought, folks... I see both sides---it's just tough to hear of so many young bulls with a 1" web point being left to lay after a guy takes a long shot or whatever... those bulls won't live to achieve the true spike rule intentions... just throwing some thoughts out there....

[bobcat]

True spike is the dumbest thing ever. They need to eliminate the general seasons and go to permit only, and ANY bull should be legal for those who draw permits.

[winshooter88]

A couple of years ago I asked a WDFW biologist when the true spike designation would be removed and his answer was "not in your lifetime". I am 61 so take your calculations from there.

[ballpark]

On 10/29(Sunday) I had one brief chance at a "true spike" but could not verify both antlers before he hit the bottom into dark stuff.  I was almost sure but not 100%, never saw another spike - plenty of branched. 

[greenhead_killer]

It’s a garbage rule. I’ve had spikes at 25 feet that looked to be 100% ts until they turned their head and a 2” kicker is sitting 4” from the top. That’s at 25 feet and hard to tell. Not a chance in hell you can see that at 200 yards in some of the thicker stuff. I get close two a dozen try’s spikes on cams every year in there but refuse to hunt it archery anymore until they take otc cows off the board. It’s as bad as rifle is now.

[doyourtime89]

This is a garbage rule for sure.  I know and have talked to numerous hunters I come across and everyone of them have stories ever year of seeing and/or coming across a dead 1x2 or small 1x3 what ever it is.  They got shot and felt to waste.  I do understand trying to keep as many big bulls around to breed and what not but the truth is your aren't saying many of the small bull (1x2, 1x3 or what ever) because they are just being killed and left.  So why not just go to "spike" like just about every other east side unit.  You still save the "big bulls" to bread but all spikes with little kickers don't get killed and go to waste they can go home to someone freezer.  "True spike" is one of the worst things ever.  They can not honestly tell me you are saving so many more breeders from "spike" to "true spike" rules.  Only difference is the "spikes" are being killed but not being taken home.  Same about of elk killed.  This rule just changes how many are left to waste to taken home.

[BreezyBear]

I also get plenty of true spikes on my cams..........also agree the archery show is as bad as rifle now.  Found a blind that actually had different colored flags at 10, 20, 30 yards staked out in several directions down lanes cleared with a chain saw.  True spike is garbage, and general archery cow is the same

[Rainier10]

Here are the benefits to true spike.

#1 it keeps the area open for hunting.  There are a ton of guys that have hunted the colockum for generations.  By making it true spike you still give those traditionalists the opportunity to hunt the area.  The next option was to close the unit totally and that would have displaced a ton of hunters and taken away the opportunity for many that just want to hunt that unit with their hunting party and family like they have done for years.

#2 it actually reduces pressure on this herd. Like others have said most other units on the east side are spike only.  Many if given the option of hunting true spike or spike only will take the spike only area and that lowers the number of hunters in the true spike area.

#3 even though a few 1x2's and 1x3's are getting shot there are still a bunch of them that make it through and become mature bulls. As others have said there are way more mature bulls than there have been in the past.  The game department recognizes that and the number of bull permits has increased.

As for archery general cow permits that is another story. If they want to reduce pressure on this herd they should eliminate the general archery cow option and just give out permits for that.  By doing this you would move more hunters out of this area to surrounding GMU's that have general archery cow seasons.

I think right now they are still in the "we need to reduce cow numbers in the unit" and that is why it is still open for general archery cow hunting.

[doyourtime89]

I hear what you are saying.  But I honestly think from talking to hunters and game wardens that A LOT of 1x2's and 1X3's are getting shot and left to rot.  I just don't feel that the true spike rule is really allowing that many 1x2's and 1x3's to live and make it through the season.  I know there has to be some but I am guessing not many.  And would you rather see the ones kills just rot or be allowed to go home with someone.  I guess my point is about the same number of small bulls are being killed so you aren't allowing that many to live on.  Its just what happens to them once they are shot.  I was over there with a cow tag this year and the herd I got my cow out of was about 90 or so elk.  1-7x7, 2-5x5's, 1-2x4, 2-1x2's and 2-1x1's.  Side note:  both 1x1's and one of the 1x2's had their right side horn facing straight down the side of their face.  On the 1x2, the 2 was up and the 1 was facing down.  I guy I was with shot one of the 1x1's, but it took us a long time to feel comfortable for him to take the shot because on the side that was standing up right there was a piece of dried up velvet that was still attached to the horn and was really had to look it over and over to make sure it wasn't a second point. 

[time2hunt]

The question is why are they being shot ? Poor optics , not looking at there intended target before shooting or just in such a hurry to beat the other guy .


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