Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies

[Britt-dog]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


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So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Just because we don’t want to kill elephants has nothing to do with having an open mind, you’ll never convince me to hunt and kill elephants. But if you want to, and if your ever in need of my vote so you can, you got it! I think your taking this personally.   

Well said, sir!!


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My comment to your open mindedness or lack of, is regarding the original subject, trophy ivory importation. I really don't care if you or Trophyhunt (ironic username) want to shoot elephants, and never tried to make this thread about elephant hunting specifically. I started out trying to educate some posters on the negative affects of the ban and the positives of elephant hunting as a whole. Unfortunately like me, your mind was made up before you ever posted.

I think its pretty funny how offended people get when asked to articulate their stated position on a subject.

Trophyhunt: I really would like to know where you draw the line on which animal you would or wouldn't shoot based on their level of intelligence. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence displayed by the animals I hunt, I have nothing but respect for them. If I used that as a gauge for what is worthy or not, I probably wouldn't hunt.

[Britt-dog]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


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So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Being capable of expressing the rationale for an opinion, and choosing to voluntarily do so are two differnt things. I thought most people would understand that. I stand corrected.

My mistake thinking people posting on a discussion forum would want to discuss. I stand corrected.

[jackelope]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Just because we don’t want to kill elephants has nothing to do with having an open mind, you’ll never convince me to hunt and kill elephants. But if you want to, and if your ever in need of my vote so you can, you got it! I think your taking this personally.   

Well said, sir!!


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My comment to your open mindedness or lack of, is regarding the original subject, trophy ivory importation. I really don't care if you or Trophyhunt (ironic username) want to shoot elephants, and never tried to make this thread about elephant hunting specifically. I started out trying to educate some posters on the negative affects of the ban and the positives of elephant hunting as a whole. Unfortunately like me, your mind was made up before you ever posted.

I think its pretty funny how offended people get when asked to articulate their stated position on a subject.

Trophyhunt: I really would like to know where you draw the line on which animal you would or wouldn't shoot based on their level of intelligence. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence displayed by the animals I hunt, I have nothing but respect for them. If I used that as a gauge for what is worthy or not, I probably wouldn't hunt.

1-If you read my first post on this topic, it was me asking legitimate questions.

2-I’m not offended. Never was. It would take a lot for you to offend me...especially on such a trivial thing in the grand scheme of my life.

The only point I was trying to make is that nobody should “need” to quantify anything to you or anyone else if that’s the way they feel. Trophyhunt doesn’t want to shoot an elephant because he likes their cute ears, done. Trophyhunt isn’t going to shoot an ele. You prying for more reasoning is uncalled for in my opinion.   He doesn’t need to explain to you or anyone.

I had a recent experience with a once in a lifetime mountain goat hunt here in WA. I told everyone I didn’t want to shoot a nanny and I didn’t want to shoot a billy over 300 yards. Why? Because I didn’t want to.  Reason enough.  My friends I hunted with who helped me supported that without question. 

[Britt-dog]

QUOTE FROM BRITT-DOG:
So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

When you write stuff like this, it doesn't come off like you're trying to educate anyone.    It comes across very much like you want to argue.       

You basically said that Jackalope isn't capable of thinking at your level.    I've never met the man, but.........

I've never met him either, but I have lurked here for years and read plenty of his posts, he is more than a capable thinker. He originally said he was trying to see both sides of the issue, I was surprised by that, it is very black and white to me.

[trophyhunt]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Just because we don’t want to kill elephants has nothing to do with having an open mind, you’ll never convince me to hunt and kill elephants. But if you want to, and if your ever in need of my vote so you can, you got it! I think your taking this personally.   

Well said, sir!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My comment to your open mindedness or lack of, is regarding the original subject, trophy ivory importation. I really don't care if you or Trophyhunt (ironic username) want to shoot elephants, and never tried to make this thread about elephant hunting specifically. I started out trying to educate some posters on the negative affects of the ban and the positives of elephant hunting as a whole. Unfortunately like me, your mind was made up before you ever posted.

I think its pretty funny how offended people get when asked to articulate their stated position on a subject.

Trophyhunt: I really would like to know where you draw the line on which animal you would or wouldn't shoot based on their level of intelligence. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence displayed by the animals I hunt, I have nothing but respect for them. If I used that as a gauge for what is worthy or not, I probably wouldn't hunt.

I don’t have a biology degree, I’m definetly no expert on which species is more intelligent than the other.  I would never kill an elephant, a dolphin or probably a polar bear.  I have no interest in African animals either, except for a kudu.  I don’t set my guidelines on what I hunt by their intelligence, but elephants are much more intelligent then most hunted animals. It’s just my opinion. And like I said, I’m no threat to your right or privalidge to hunt anything.

[Britt-dog]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Just because we don’t want to kill elephants has nothing to do with having an open mind, you’ll never convince me to hunt and kill elephants. But if you want to, and if your ever in need of my vote so you can, you got it! I think your taking this personally.   

Well said, sir!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My comment to your open mindedness or lack of, is regarding the original subject, trophy ivory importation. I really don't care if you or Trophyhunt (ironic username) want to shoot elephants, and never tried to make this thread about elephant hunting specifically. I started out trying to educate some posters on the negative affects of the ban and the positives of elephant hunting as a whole. Unfortunately like me, your mind was made up before you ever posted.

I think its pretty funny how offended people get when asked to articulate their stated position on a subject.

Trophyhunt: I really would like to know where you draw the line on which animal you would or wouldn't shoot based on their level of intelligence. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence displayed by the animals I hunt, I have nothing but respect for them. If I used that as a gauge for what is worthy or not, I probably wouldn't hunt.

1-If you read my first post on this topic, it was me asking legitimate questions.

2-I’m not offended. Never was. It would take a lot for you to offend me...especially on such a trivial thing in the grand scheme of my life.

The only point I was trying to make is that nobody should “need” to quantify anything to you or anyone else if that’s the way they feel. Trophyhunt doesn’t want to shoot an elephant because he likes their cute ears, done. Trophyhunt isn’t going to shoot an ele. You prying for more reasoning is uncalled for in my opinion.   He doesn’t need to explain to you or anyone.

I had a recent experience with a once in a lifetime mountain goat hunt here in WA. I told everyone I didn’t want to shoot a nanny and I didn’t want to shoot a billy over 300 yards. Why? Because I didn’t want to.  Reason enough.  My friends I hunted with who helped me supported that without question.

1- I really tried to answer them as best I could.

2- I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else, that is counter productive. No one has to answer my questions or requests, but again, this is a discussion forum is it not?

3- I also had a oil goat permit in 2016. I passed several very long nannies and ended up shooting an 8.5" Billy. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed in his size, there were larger billies to be had. I should have come back for another hunt. I would have eaten the tag before I shot a nanny, that's just good conservation. So is paid trophy hunting of elephants. Allowing a narrow scope of ivory importation promotes that.

[jackelope]

Agree w dan-o, I could never kill an elephant, they are intelligent animals.  And my grandma loved them, she’d come after me from the dead if I ever hunted one. I support all hunting and understand conservation, but just could never kill an elephant.

Please quantify at what level of intelligence, you are no longer whiling to kill an animal. Bears are very intelligent, as are coyotes, the difference between them and say Horses and Elephants is people have attached emotion to horses and elephants. Go live with elephants for a few years and I bet your opinion of them will change.

I’m not interested in killing one. That’s my level of non-interest. 100%. You keep posting asking folks to “quantify their reason”. Nobody needs to quantify anything. If they don’t want to, they don’t want to. I’ve never killed a bear either. Have little to no interest in it. Why? Just cuz. Reason enough for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So your saying you actually don't have an open mind, when it comes to this subject. In an effort to spur intelligent debate I have asked two posters in this thread to give the reasoning behind their opinions, or statements. I thought you were capable of that. I stand corrected.

Just because we don’t want to kill elephants has nothing to do with having an open mind, you’ll never convince me to hunt and kill elephants. But if you want to, and if your ever in need of my vote so you can, you got it! I think your taking this personally.   

Well said, sir!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My comment to your open mindedness or lack of, is regarding the original subject, trophy ivory importation. I really don't care if you or Trophyhunt (ironic username) want to shoot elephants, and never tried to make this thread about elephant hunting specifically. I started out trying to educate some posters on the negative affects of the ban and the positives of elephant hunting as a whole. Unfortunately like me, your mind was made up before you ever posted.

I think its pretty funny how offended people get when asked to articulate their stated position on a subject.

Trophyhunt: I really would like to know where you draw the line on which animal you would or wouldn't shoot based on their level of intelligence. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence displayed by the animals I hunt, I have nothing but respect for them. If I used that as a gauge for what is worthy or not, I probably wouldn't hunt.

1-If you read my first post on this topic, it was me asking legitimate questions.

2-I’m not offended. Never was. It would take a lot for you to offend me...especially on such a trivial thing in the grand scheme of my life.

The only point I was trying to make is that nobody should “need” to quantify anything to you or anyone else if that’s the way they feel. Trophyhunt doesn’t want to shoot an elephant because he likes their cute ears, done. Trophyhunt isn’t going to shoot an ele. You prying for more reasoning is uncalled for in my opinion.   He doesn’t need to explain to you or anyone.

I had a recent experience with a once in a lifetime mountain goat hunt here in WA. I told everyone I didn’t want to shoot a nanny and I didn’t want to shoot a billy over 300 yards. Why? Because I didn’t want to.  Reason enough.  My friends I hunted with who helped me supported that without question.

1- I really tried to answer them as best I could.

2- I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else, that is counter productive. No one has to answer my questions or requests, but again, this is a discussion forum is it not?

3- I also had a oil goat permit in 2016. I passed several very long nannies and ended up shooting an 8.5" Billy. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed in his size, there were larger billies to be had. I should have come back for another hunt. I would have eaten the tag before I shot a nanny, that's just good conservation. So is paid trophy hunting of elephants. Allowing a narrow scope of ivory importation promotes that.

Everyone wants more than what they got. I had a self-set goal of a 9” billy and wanted him to be older than 5. I ended up with a 9” billy that was 4.5 years old. I wish he had another year or 2 on him but it is what it is. They’re amazing animals and when we harvest one, we’ve all wholeheartedly earned every inch of them.
I have nothing against others shooting elephants. Or bears. In fact I would totally help you pack out your elephant tusks. I have a good pack. Just don’t want to shoot one myself.


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[KFhunter]

nothing wrong with that     


I wouldn't shoot one either, can't take it home and eat it and I don't need tusks sitting in a corner gathering dust.

[KFhunter]

I know it would bring a pile of money in elephant impact areas though. 

To me elephants are a lot like wolves in WA, people in King CO have dictated that *I* in NE WA must live with wolves and I can't shoot them to keep them out of my place.  It's the same with those tribal people living with elephants destroying their crops, they aren't allowed to shoot them either.   

The US has dictated that those villagers should live with elephants killing their people and destroying their crops and keep wealthy Americans from spending wads of cash that would help out those villagers and *ironically* help out the elephants in areas where there aren't enough.

[jackelope]

Wealthy Americans can shoot elephants in Africa now, no?

I’m pretty positive my friend has an elephant shoulder mount in his trophy room. I know it’s a reconstruction or whatever you call it, but I know he killed one.

[KFhunter]

If Americans could bring back real trophies wouldn't you think there would be more hunting them?  I think nothing but a picture and cheap replica of a real trophy keeps would be hunters away.  I didn't mean that it's illegal.

[Angry Perch]

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Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal.
3:57 PM - 19 Nov 2017

[Special T]

This debate in indicitave of how westerners view Africa in general. The we know better mentality because they live in mud huts. Africa is rich in resources, and the animals are just as renewable as timber or the animals here in the USA.  Most of us recognise that if you want to save an animal you need sportsmen to support them. Hunting is part of that.

Unless I recieve some windfall I doubt I'd ever step foot on the continent to hunt.  I want hunting of all the animals in Africa because it will ensure thier survival.

If your personal preference it so hunt some particular animal I'm not sure any of us fellow hunters should care one way or another. Why? Because that is how Californians lost the ability to hunt cougar, and we lost the ability to trap and hunt with hounds.

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[jackelope]

If Americans could bring back real trophies wouldn't you think there would be more hunting them?  I think nothing but a picture and cheap replica of a real trophy keeps would be hunters away.  I didn't mean that it's illegal.

At $30-50k a hunt, I doubt you'll see a big rise in the number of elephant hunts.

[Bob33]

If Americans could bring back real trophies wouldn't you think there would be more hunting them?  I think nothing but a picture and cheap replica of a real trophy keeps would be hunters away.  I didn't mean that it's illegal.

At $30-50k a hunt, I doubt you'll see a big rise in the number of elephant hunts.

One $30k hunt supports a lot of villagers for a long time, in addition to the meat it provides.