Multiple wolf packs in the Methow Valley?

[Practical Approach]

Ok, I get that.  However, wolf growth rates and expansion rates are well documented since the Yellowstone transplant.  I am personally skeptical that an agency or a group would take that kind of risk for a species that has already been expanding in WA direction. However, I also acknowledge strange things have happened in the past in the wold of wildlife management especially when dealing with endangered or threatened species. I would suspicious if a wolf pack magically appeared on the Olympics or southwest Washington in the near future. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Well there has been members on here saying they saw WDFW with cages and that they were hauling wolves, and other instances. No real proof. Some just don't trust WDFW.

[Humptulips]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

And if you could take it to court what could be done about it? The cat is out of the bag so to speak. They are not going to say collect them up.
Maybe someone at the Department gets in trouble but what does that get you?
I'm not sure why we go round and round on this.

[Skyvalhunter]

We go round and round on it because its a hot topic right, wrong or indifferent. Kind of like the Indian hunting, State salmon fishing, cougars, etc. Nothing gets resolved but it gets people worked up and P.O.

[DOUBLELUNG]

53 cougars were collared in western Okanogan County over an 8-9 year period, from 2006 through 2014.  112 cougars were collared statewide over a 14 year period in four study areas.  The link is to a meta analysis of the data from four studies, I included it because it shows the study area locations and numbers collared in each area.  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.1828/full

Thanks for the info Doublelung, it puts that “53” in perspective.

Would you have any inside information on any “wolf plants”?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Anyone ever done a FOIA request for information on transplanted wolves?

I'm personally 100% positive WDFW has never imported wolves into the state.  I'm unaware of any wolves trapped in state that were released anywhere other than at the capture location, however when doing helicopter captures of ungulates it is not uncommon to transport them to a nearby work-up location.  I don't know if that has been done with wolves, but if so it would be counterproductive for research to move them out of the pack territory.

I am aware of at least two occasions where unauthorized releases of captive animals that were possibly dog hybrids have been detected and which did not persist beyond a few months.  Those were in Chelan and Lincoln Counties.  Both were 10+ years ago.  I reported one my wife and I saw along Highway 2 in Lincoln Co. in 2007 that was subsequently roadkill a few weeks later, IIRC it was an escaped animal. 

I would be surprised if nobody has done a FOIA for transplanted wolves.  I dismiss any possibility of rogue employees of WDFW doing so, I've heard the rumors and dismiss them as such - especially given WDFW's willingness to sack or otherwise sanction employees for unauthorized activities.

To put it into perspective, the relatively non-controversial re-establishment of bighorns on Chelan Butte required 3+ years of bureaucratic process (habitat suitability evaluation, strong advocacy by the WA Sheep Foundation, SEPA, etc.) before sheep were trapped in Region 3 and transplanted. 

I'm 10+ years out from having any insider information.  I can state that it was about 5 years from when field personnel, both USFS and WDFW, suspected there was a pack between Lake Chelan and the Methow River until the Lookout Pack was confirmed. I think that is likely faster now with dedicated wolf funding and personnel, but it is still reasonable to suspect at least a 1-2 year lag between the time a pack is suspected and when it is confirmed.

I'll play devils advocate and your likely the best positioned to answer.

The antelope that have been transplanted was done outside of the WDFW influence and knowledge. I belive it was SCI and the Tribe.  Isn't it possible that some 3rd party trans planted animals? It has happened with fish... I recognize it's probably more difficult than many other animals...

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Yes, that is possible.  It has definitely been done with turkeys in both WA and WY.  Elk farms in CO have been convicted of trapping and privatizing free-ranging elk. 

[BeerBugler]

 

It’s almost funny - but actually very sad.
The pro-wolf crowd on this forum follows Wolfbait around like a pack of wolves trying to discredit him at every turn. The true hunters and conservatives see what is happening and there are many on this forum that will not stand up in his defense but they agree with him. They just don’t want to get ridiculed and I really can’t blame them.
Our government has been attacking hunters (conservatives by nature - similar to the military) in many ways. The corrupt, unlawful wolf introduction of non-native wolves was a jewel in their crown of corruption!

The goal of the liberal agenda is to destroy the conservative movement at every angle.
Most hunters are either blind to this or they simply don’t want to hear it or don’t want to take action.
They may sadly wake up one day to find there is no hunting available and conservatives (most hunters) will be blamed for ‘killing off’ the ungulates they desire to hunt - but were denied the management tools to sustain huntable numbers of ungulates. That’s the back door plan of those who support these non-native wolves. I hope you aren’t surprised by this.
Part of the plan is to discredit those who are sending out the warning messages.
That’s the job of the liberal media. Some are on this forum. I wish they weren’t but they are and they are very loud.
Regardless of the number of cats, wolves, coyotes, or bears – we have far too many predators in this state and this state’s wildlife department is part of the corruption and they are not managing for hunters. They are managing for predators. I have been saying this for 30 years or more.
I’ve been ridiculed too but I know where it comes from.

Spot On!

[jackelope]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

We have a winner!!!!

[jackelope]

53 cougars were collared in western Okanogan County over an 8-9 year period, from 2006 through 2014.  112 cougars were collared statewide over a 14 year period in four study areas.  The link is to a meta analysis of the data from four studies, I included it because it shows the study area locations and numbers collared in each area.  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.1828/full

Thanks for the info Doublelung, it puts that “53” in perspective.

Would you have any inside information on any “wolf plants”?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Anyone ever done a FOIA request for information on transplanted wolves?

I'm personally 100% positive WDFW has never imported wolves into the state.  I'm unaware of any wolves trapped in state that were released anywhere other than at the capture location, however when doing helicopter captures of ungulates it is not uncommon to transport them to a nearby work-up location.  I don't know if that has been done with wolves, but if so it would be counterproductive for research to move them out of the pack territory.

I am aware of at least two occasions where unauthorized releases of captive animals that were possibly dog hybrids have been detected and which did not persist beyond a few months.  Those were in Chelan and Lincoln Counties.  Both were 10+ years ago.  I reported one my wife and I saw along Highway 2 in Lincoln Co. in 2007 that was subsequently roadkill a few weeks later, IIRC it was an escaped animal. 

I would be surprised if nobody has done a FOIA for transplanted wolves.  I dismiss any possibility of rogue employees of WDFW doing so, I've heard the rumors and dismiss them as such - especially given WDFW's willingness to sack or otherwise sanction employees for unauthorized activities.

To put it into perspective, the relatively non-controversial re-establishment of bighorns on Chelan Butte required 3+ years of bureaucratic process (habitat suitability evaluation, strong advocacy by the WA Sheep Foundation, SEPA, etc.) before sheep were trapped in Region 3 and transplanted. 

I'm 10+ years out from having any insider information.  I can state that it was about 5 years from when field personnel, both USFS and WDFW, suspected there was a pack between Lake Chelan and the Methow River until the Lookout Pack was confirmed. I think that is likely faster now with dedicated wolf funding and personnel, but it is still reasonable to suspect at least a 1-2 year lag between the time a pack is suspected and when it is confirmed.

I'll play devils advocate and your likely the best positioned to answer.

The antelope that have been transplanted was done outside of the WDFW influence and knowledge. I belive it was SCI and the Tribe.  Isn't it possible that some 3rd party trans planted animals? It has happened with fish... I recognize it's probably more difficult than many other animals...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

WDFW knew about all pronghorn releases. They were just unwilling to assist. They were fully involved in the last transplants.

[idahohuntr]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

We have a winner!!!!

I'll play along (even though its unequivocally clear WDFW did not release wolves into WA)...what does "taking this to court" solve or address?  It won't change wolf management, de-listing, migration of wolves into WA, etc.  So what is the end game? 

[jackelope]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

We have a winner!!!!

I'll play along (even though its unequivocally clear WDFW did not release wolves into WA)...what does "taking this to court" solve or address?  It won't change wolf management, de-listing, migration of wolves into WA, etc.  So what is the end game? 

Maybe just the legitimate ability to bash the crap out of WDFW on huntwa over the wolf release debate.

Or maybe just a final answer to the age old question that's been looming here for years. .....Is there actually evidence....??

[Bob33]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

We have a winner!!!!

I'll play along (even though its unequivocally clear WDFW did not release wolves into WA)...what does "taking this to court" solve or address?  It won't change wolf management, de-listing, migration of wolves into WA, etc.  So what is the end game? 

Maybe just the legitimate ability to bash the crap out of WDFW on huntwa over the wolf release debate.

Or maybe just a final answer to the age old question that's been looming here for years. .....Is there actually evidence....??

That would never satisfy those who believe they were released. No evidence, is evidence of the coverup.

[npaull]

The true hunters and conservatives see what is happening and there are many on this forum that will not stand up in his defense but they agree with him. They just don’t want to get ridiculed and I really can’t blame them.

I'm super interested to know what a TRUE hunter is.

Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's somebody who a) hunts and b) agrees with everything you think. 

[bobcat]

The true hunters and conservatives see what is happening and there are many on this forum that will not stand up in his defense but they agree with him. They just don’t want to get ridiculed and I really can’t blame them.

I'm super interested to know what a TRUE hunter is.

Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's somebody who a) hunts and b) agrees with everything you think. 

 

[NumaJohn]

Hello, Forum members.

Does it matter at all that WDFW denies the accusation that they have introduced wolves? Does it help clear things up if they "totally" deny it?

There is no question that wolves were introduced--with much fanfare, debate, joy, and disgust--in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. But where, precisely, is the credible, relevant evidence the accusers are citing in indicting WDFW in the court of Forum opinion? Why is it so difficult to believe that wolves in Canada, over time, built up their populations to the point that some/many of them eventually crossed what is to them an artificial border? We all know how quickly wolf populations are growing, so it just doesn't seem at all unlikely that the wolves came into northern MT, ID, and WA on their own and got after it. If there is evidence of illegal wolf introductions, however, I would support prosecution to the full extent of the law. Bashing WDFW based on heresay, though, seems counterproductive for all hunters, regardless of their political stripes and overarching opinions about wolves.

John

[boneaddict]

Meanwhile.....back in the Methow

🐺 eats 🦌