Multiple wolf packs in the Methow Valley?

[Special T]

Wolfbait has chronicled wolves in this state with all manner of 3rd party information. I'm quite certain he has a hard drive full of collected articles. It is evident from his frustration that his massive amounts of articles and local anicidotal  stories  that some people's definition of proof is different than his. Many on here think you need legal proof to make a claim, and be certain if he had that kind of proof there would be a lawsuit.

As some one who has been blown off  seeing wolves, and others I know the same, it's hard for me to belive that the department is on the up and up. NWWABOWHUNTER  posted pics up here of a wolf pack on the nooksack  and was blown off.

You don't have to belive Wolfbait, but you had better pay attention when Bone essentially backs up what he is saying... If you don't think he has street cred then you must be blind to the piles of pictures he takes.

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[boneaddict]

Shouldn't the predator populations decrease right along with the deer? Or do they make up for the lack of deer by eating pets and livestock? Just wondering, since it seems an historically low number of deer should also result in a low number of predators, since those predators can't live long and continue reproducing if they have nothing to eat.

I think that was the whole jist of the first post.  This winter is going to be interesting

[idaho guy]

53 cougars were collared in western Okanogan County over an 8-9 year period, from 2006 through 2014.  112 cougars were collared statewide over a 14 year period in four study areas.  The link is to a meta analysis of the data from four studies, I included it because it shows the study area locations and numbers collared in each area.  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.1828/full

get your facts straight wolfbait there wasn't 52 cougars collared it was 53! geez man stick to the facts! 

[fishngamereaper]

People that need/ want hard proof of wdfw's involvement with wolf introduction....if you stop and think about it that info probably doesn't exist... unless you can find one of the handful of people that would of been involved. If your not aware they aren't the most trusted agency in the state. And , , unfortunately have been known to sneak around and make back door deals to push their agenda.

[idahohuntr]

some people's definition of proof is different than his.

Yea, I would agree with that.

[Special T]

some people's definition of proof is different than his.

Yea, I would agree with that.

I hate to break it to ya but if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck,  and quacks like a duck.... I dont need a DNA sample to say its a duck. We KNOW that USFW brought wolves from the Mackenzie valley Canada to ID and YNP. We KNOW that the USFWS is trying to "Transplant" Grizz in the Cascades... Ive been to the meetings We know the USFW has used the Sue and Settle Technique. We know that the WDFW has a LOT of influence from "Stake holders" Whom are Faux sportsmen.... Is this Quacking and Waddling yet? Perhaps not but even if it isnt its damned close.

[Dan-o]

some people's definition of proof is different than his.

Yea, I would agree with that.

I hate to break it to ya but if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck,  and quacks like a duck.... I dont need a DNA sample to say its a duck. We KNOW that USFW brought wolves from the Mackenzie valley Canada to ID and YNP. We KNOW that the USFWS is trying to "Transplant" Grizz in the Cascades... Ive been to the meetings We know the USFW has used the Sue and Settle Technique. We know that the WDFW has a LOT of influence from "Stake holders" Whom are Faux sportsmen.... Is this Quacking and Waddling yet? Perhaps not but even if it isnt its damned close.

As a guy who doesn't believe that WDFW planted wolves because I don't see any evidence, I think you're kind of making my point.

We KNOW about those other transplants because there...... was...... evidence.....

I've never called Wolfbait any names (nor anyone else that believes in WDFW wolf transplants).   I don't call you pro-wolf, or any other names.

I think we can all agree that out of control wolf populations are drastically impacting big game in the many parts of NE Washington, and that predators need to be managed more aggressively.

Good night, all.

[ribka]

some people's definition of proof is different than his.

Yea, I would agree with that.

Agree wholeheartedly

Would be super cool if wdfw would continue to shut down more hunting opportunities for sportsmen here in Washington so the wolf populations would grow unchecked. And shut down more mountain lion hunting too (thanks conservation NW and Mitch Friedman )and add more predators (bears ) to the mix

It's a win win for sportsmen here in the PNW.

[jackelope]

If illegal wolf introductions happened, evidence of this happening would help support a case against Wdfw or usfws or the UPS guy or whoever released the wolves. That’s why evidence would help(in my eyes anyway). I don’t want evidence because I’m a pro-wolf hippy west sider or anything like that. Not sure what’s so hard to understand there.



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[kellama2001]

  ...This winter is going to be interesting

 

[huntnphool]

  ...This winter is going to be interesting

 

 If we can get a couple more weeks of weather like this we should be okay, even if it snows heavily after.........fingers crossed.

[DOUBLELUNG]

53 cougars were collared in western Okanogan County over an 8-9 year period, from 2006 through 2014.  112 cougars were collared statewide over a 14 year period in four study areas.  The link is to a meta analysis of the data from four studies, I included it because it shows the study area locations and numbers collared in each area.  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.1828/full

Thanks for the info Doublelung, it puts that “53” in perspective.

Would you have any inside information on any “wolf plants”?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Anyone ever done a FOIA request for information on transplanted wolves?

I'm personally 100% positive WDFW has never imported wolves into the state.  I'm unaware of any wolves trapped in state that were released anywhere other than at the capture location, however when doing helicopter captures of ungulates it is not uncommon to transport them to a nearby work-up location.  I don't know if that has been done with wolves, but if so it would be counterproductive for research to move them out of the pack territory.

I am aware of at least two occasions where unauthorized releases of captive animals that were possibly dog hybrids have been detected and which did not persist beyond a few months.  Those were in Chelan and Lincoln Counties.  Both were 10+ years ago.  I reported one my wife and I saw along Highway 2 in Lincoln Co. in 2007 that was subsequently roadkill a few weeks later, IIRC it was an escaped animal. 

I would be surprised if nobody has done a FOIA for transplanted wolves.  I dismiss any possibility of rogue employees of WDFW doing so, I've heard the rumors and dismiss them as such - especially given WDFW's willingness to sack or otherwise sanction employees for unauthorized activities.

To put it into perspective, the relatively non-controversial re-establishment of bighorns on Chelan Butte required 3+ years of bureaucratic process (habitat suitability evaluation, strong advocacy by the WA Sheep Foundation, SEPA, etc.) before sheep were trapped in Region 3 and transplanted. 

I'm 10+ years out from having any insider information.  I can state that it was about 5 years from when field personnel, both USFS and WDFW, suspected there was a pack between Lake Chelan and the Methow River until the Lookout Pack was confirmed. I think that is likely faster now with dedicated wolf funding and personnel, but it is still reasonable to suspect at least a 1-2 year lag between the time a pack is suspected and when it is confirmed.

[Special T]

53 cougars were collared in western Okanogan County over an 8-9 year period, from 2006 through 2014.  112 cougars were collared statewide over a 14 year period in four study areas.  The link is to a meta analysis of the data from four studies, I included it because it shows the study area locations and numbers collared in each area.  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.1828/full

Thanks for the info Doublelung, it puts that “53” in perspective.

Would you have any inside information on any “wolf plants”?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Anyone ever done a FOIA request for information on transplanted wolves?

I'm personally 100% positive WDFW has never imported wolves into the state.  I'm unaware of any wolves trapped in state that were released anywhere other than at the capture location, however when doing helicopter captures of ungulates it is not uncommon to transport them to a nearby work-up location.  I don't know if that has been done with wolves, but if so it would be counterproductive for research to move them out of the pack territory.

I am aware of at least two occasions where unauthorized releases of captive animals that were possibly dog hybrids have been detected and which did not persist beyond a few months.  Those were in Chelan and Lincoln Counties.  Both were 10+ years ago.  I reported one my wife and I saw along Highway 2 in Lincoln Co. in 2007 that was subsequently roadkill a few weeks later, IIRC it was an escaped animal. 

I would be surprised if nobody has done a FOIA for transplanted wolves.  I dismiss any possibility of rogue employees of WDFW doing so, I've heard the rumors and dismiss them as such - especially given WDFW's willingness to sack or otherwise sanction employees for unauthorized activities.

To put it into perspective, the relatively non-controversial re-establishment of bighorns on Chelan Butte required 3+ years of bureaucratic process (habitat suitability evaluation, strong advocacy by the WA Sheep Foundation, SEPA, etc.) before sheep were trapped in Region 3 and transplanted. 

I'm 10+ years out from having any insider information.  I can state that it was about 5 years from when field personnel, both USFS and WDFW, suspected there was a pack between Lake Chelan and the Methow River until the Lookout Pack was confirmed. I think that is likely faster now with dedicated wolf funding and personnel, but it is still reasonable to suspect at least a 1-2 year lag between the time a pack is suspected and when it is confirmed.

I'll play devils advocate and your likely the best positioned to answer.

The antelope that have been transplanted was done outside of the WDFW influence and knowledge. I belive it was SCI and the Tribe.  Isn't it possible that some 3rd party trans planted animals? It has happened with fish... I recognize it's probably more difficult than many other animals...

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[Practical Approach]

Maybe I missed the point.   WDFW acknowledges that the wolf population is growing in WA at a rate of over 30% annually.  I assume this is happening in other wolf states as well which is why WA now has wolves.  At that growth rate, why would anyone need to transplant wolves?  They are doing a good job of expanding on their own. 

As far a prey,  wolves are adaptable animals.  They will swap prey species if and when needed or simply relocate I would suspect. 

[Skyvalhunter]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.