Multiple wolf packs in the Methow Valley?

[boneaddict]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

[Special T]

"Why is it so difficult to believe that wolves in Canada, over time, built up their populations to the point that some/many of them eventually crossed what is to them an artificial border? We all know how quickly wolf populations are growing, so it just doesn't seem at all unlikely that the wolves came into northern MT, ID, and WA on their own"

I hate to re hash the facts, but if this was happening why would the USFW bring them in? They brought them in to YNP and ID. Consider how fast the wolves have spread from introduction areas essentially east and west, not southerly through the cascades and Rockies. Since there have been wolves present In BC one could assume that in the short 20 year period of thier great expansion  would have taken place at the beginning of thier protection in the 70s.

If the WDFW actually wanted to build trust and faith (there is an obvious lack of it) why do we not know how manny wolves are collared? Why not thier general locations?

I often explain to my kids that trust is hard  earned and easily lost. What is the department doing to earn our trust?

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[Special T]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

Let's not forget that even the WDFW has made statements about knowing what lineage these new wolves come from with thier DNA testing.... and they seem to be coming from those in ID.

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[jackelope]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

So do you think someone planted them in the Methow?   Or anywhere in WA for that matter?
(not to include any of the whacko's releasing wolf/dog mixes out of the back of their cars)

[Axle]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

Dream on!
That would be like taking Bill and Hitlery to court. You wouldn't make it the steps of the courthouse.

[Boss .300 winmag]

"Why is it so difficult to believe that wolves in Canada, over time, built up their populations to the point that some/many of them eventually crossed what is to them an artificial border? We all know how quickly wolf populations are growing, so it just doesn't seem at all unlikely that the wolves came into northern MT, ID, and WA on their own"

I hate to re hash the facts, but if this was happening why would the USFW bring them in? They brought them in to YNP and ID. Consider how fast the wolves have spread from introduction areas essentially east and west, not southerly through the cascades and Rockies. Since there have been wolves present In BC one could assume that in the short 20 year period of thier great expansion  would have taken place at the beginning of thier protection in the 70s.

If the WDFW actually wanted to build trust and faith (there is an obvious lack of it) why do we not know how manny wolves are collared? Why not thier general locations?

I often explain to my kids that trust is hard  earned and easily lost. What is the department doing to earn our trust?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

We had wolves prior to the Yellowstone ones migrating to here. A pack was up in the Northcascades National Park at Hozomeen.

[jackelope]

The point is if they can prove they were transplanted it could be taken to court.

Dream on!
That would be like taking Bill and Hitlery to court. You wouldn't make it the steps of the courthouse.

At a minimum it would put the age old question to bed.

[boneaddict]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

So do you think someone planted them in the Methow?   Or anywhere in WA for that matter?
(not to include any of the whacko's releasing wolf/dog mixes out of the back of their cars)

I have my suspicions, but obviously no proof other than local observations from people I know.   I also know that unless someone wants to go to jail, lose their career, we will never know the truth.   Dang near grassy knoll material.

I know there is plenty of other deception. That can’t be denied.  I have way more problem with that than anything.

[bigmacc]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

So do you think someone planted them in the Methow?   Or anywhere in WA for that matter?
(not to include any of the whacko's releasing wolf/dog mixes out of the back of their cars)

I have my suspicions, but obviously no proof other than local observations from people I know.   I also know that unless someone wants to go to jail, lose their career, we will never know the truth.   Dang near grassy knoll material.

I know there is plenty of other deception. That can’t be denied.  I have way more problem with that than anything.

Here, Here , Its, like yourself and a lot of us have been saying bone, somethings is not quite right, in fact something really stinks, its a mess,  the predator issue just keeps getting worse, a lot of questions are out there, trust in the WDFW is practically non existent by more and more people, its a real shame and in the meantime the Methow herd is disappearing. I too no longer trust much that comes out of the WDFW, my trust started eroding when they actually became the WDFW.

[Humptulips]

I’m curious.   Wolves have been in the Methow since probably the beginning of time, but let’s go back to my Grandfathers time.  Say 1920.  Then my fathers time, then my time.  Pre pack days, and now.   What an amazing recovery they have made.   I wonder why they are doing so well.  Better than turkeys 🦃 lol. 

Maybe we will get lucky and like the lemmings, will all rush to the ocean and drown.lol

So do you think someone planted them in the Methow?   Or anywhere in WA for that matter?
(not to include any of the whacko's releasing wolf/dog mixes out of the back of their cars)

I have my suspicions, but obviously no proof other than local observations from people I know.   I also know that unless someone wants to go to jail, lose their career, we will never know the truth.   Dang near grassy knoll material.

They'll probably release all the documents in 65 years. Same day they delist them.

[Skyvalhunter]

Your giving them too much credit

[DOUBLELUNG]

"Why is it so difficult to believe that wolves in Canada, over time, built up their populations to the point that some/many of them eventually crossed what is to them an artificial border? We all know how quickly wolf populations are growing, so it just doesn't seem at all unlikely that the wolves came into northern MT, ID, and WA on their own"

I hate to re hash the facts, but if this was happening why would the USFW bring them in? They brought them in to YNP and ID. Consider how fast the wolves have spread from introduction areas essentially east and west, not southerly through the cascades and Rockies. Since there have been wolves present In BC one could assume that in the short 20 year period of thier great expansion  would have taken place at the beginning of thier protection in the 70s.

My own opinion is that USFWS brought wolves from Canada to YNP in 1995 in order to beat natural recolonization of the GYE and southwards prior to having naturally established wolf packs as had already occurred in northern MT.  They wanted the flexibility (for themselves) of an experimental, nonessential designation for wolves in the Rockies south of I90 in Montana, not a fully ESA-protected naturally colonized population.  They were quite willing to swamp the genetics of the residual population, if any, and naturally colonized wolves in order to achieve that goal.  As a result, you ended up with some strange bedfellows in court trying to stop the introduction, such as hardcore environmentalists and the Wyoming Stockgrowers Association suing on the basis of genetics to try and stop it.  In the end, politics and questionable science trumped politics, questionable science, and the law.   

[idaho guy]

It’s almost funny - but actually very sad.
The pro-wolf crowd on this forum follows Wolfbait around like a pack of wolves trying to discredit him at every turn. The true hunters and conservatives see what is happening and there are many on this forum that will not stand up in his defense but they agree with him. They just don’t want to get ridiculed and I really can’t blame them.
Our government has been attacking hunters (conservatives by nature - similar to the military) in many ways. The corrupt, unlawful wolf introduction of non-native wolves was a jewel in their crown of corruption!
The goal of the liberal agenda is to destroy the conservative movement at every angle.
Most hunters are either blind to this or they simply don’t want to hear it or don’t want to take action.
They may sadly wake up one day to find there is no hunting available and conservatives (most hunters) will be blamed for ‘killing off’ the ungulates they desire to hunt - but were denied the management tools to sustain huntable numbers of ungulates. That’s the back door plan of those who support these non-native wolves. I hope you aren’t surprised by this.
Part of the plan is to discredit those who are sending out the warning messages.
That’s the job of the liberal media. Some are on this forum. I wish they weren’t but they are and they are very loud.
Regardless of the number of cats, wolves, coyotes, or bears – we have far too many predators in this state and this state’s wildlife department is part of the corruption and they are not managing for hunters. They are managing for predators. I have been saying this for 30 years or more.
I’ve been ridiculed too but I know where it comes from.

  Why fight over the small point of who brought the wolves in? In the meantime the anti hunting liberals are winning as Washington becomes a predator pit and hunters fight over I need proof wdfw introduced wolves! Who cares wolfbait has posted more solid information than anyone on wolves that I have read and some stuff that is definitely easy to question-but his overall messages is correct. On wolves and cougars and every other predator Washington refuses to manage and the end result is less hunting opportunity and more important less wildlife. Even if somehow hunting Washington could prove or disprove the covert  introduction it wont change the important things at all and that is total mismanagement of wildlife by favoring an abundance of predators. When all the deer in the methow are gone the wolves wont deciline they will simply move and kill all the game in another area. Eventually they will get to Idaho and we will take care of them. Even with trapping and hunting they seem almost impossible to control with their reproductive rates.       

[bigmacc]

Like some have said, wolves have been running around in the Methow forever probably, in and out, off and on. Moose the same thing and elk too. I remember seeing elk up on Delancy, 8mile and Andrews back in the day, seen my first moose near Sullivans in 1963 and found a moose skeleton up towards Tiffany around that time also, we had even "heard" of grizz sightings back then, my dad and I ran into a wolf up Boulder back in the early 90,s. We talked to Game Dept. folks back then about all of them(elk, moose,grizzely and wolf) and the "company line" back then was "yes they are around now and then", "you'll see them from time to time" etc. etc., the one that was flat denied was the wolf sighting, then later when we brought it up again, "oh it was a big coyote", well my dad explained to them that he lived, worked up in Alaska off and on for most of his life (up until that point) and he had seen literally thousands of wolves and new what he saw and it was not even a GIANT coyote let alone a "big coyote", the come back was "we,ll look into it". The point being (according to WDFW) why could ALL those other animals "wonder through", "travel in and out", "there here off and on" etc, but the wolf was flat denied? I think the words trust, lack of trust,transperacy and the big one, deception have been kicked around......

[ribka]

 

It’s almost funny - but actually very sad.
The pro-wolf crowd on this forum follows Wolfbait around like a pack of wolves trying to discredit him at every turn. The true hunters and conservatives see what is happening and there are many on this forum that will not stand up in his defense but they agree with him. They just don’t want to get ridiculed and I really can’t blame them.
Our government has been attacking hunters (conservatives by nature - similar to the military) in many ways. The corrupt, unlawful wolf introduction of non-native wolves was a jewel in their crown of corruption!
The goal of the liberal agenda is to destroy the conservative movement at every angle.
Most hunters are either blind to this or they simply don’t want to hear it or don’t want to take action.
They may sadly wake up one day to find there is no hunting available and conservatives (most hunters) will be blamed for ‘killing off’ the ungulates they desire to hunt - but were denied the management tools to sustain huntable numbers of ungulates. That’s the back door plan of those who support these non-native wolves. I hope you aren’t surprised by this.
Part of the plan is to discredit those who are sending out the warning messages.
That’s the job of the liberal media. Some are on this forum. I wish they weren’t but they are and they are very loud.
Regardless of the number of cats, wolves, coyotes, or bears – we have far too many predators in this state and this state’s wildlife department is part of the corruption and they are not managing for hunters. They are managing for predators. I have been saying this for 30 years or more.
I’ve been ridiculed too but I know where it comes from.

  Why fight over the small point of who brought the wolves in? In the meantime the anti hunting liberals are winning as Washington becomes a predator pit and hunters fight over I need proof wdfw introduced wolves! Who cares wolfbait has posted more solid information than anyone on wolves that I have read and some stuff that is definitely easy to question-but his overall messages is correct. On wolves and cougars and every other predator Washington refuses to manage and the end result is less hunting opportunity and more important less wildlife. Even if somehow hunting Washington could prove or disprove the covert  introduction it wont change the important things at all and that is total mismanagement of wildlife by favoring an abundance of predators. When all the deer in the methow are gone the wolves wont deciline they will simply move and kill all the game in another area. Eventually they will get to Idaho and we will take care of them. Even with trapping and hunting they seem almost impossible to control with their reproductive rates.