209 Muzzy's In Washington

[Duckslayer89]

My bighorn with musket caps and peep sight is a 200 yard gun when I do my part, I’m sure using a 209 is not going to turn it into a 300 yard gun. You still gotta keep your powder dry and you still gotta use open sights whether or not caps or 209 is used. I’m all for another ignition option personally.

Funny all these guys who don’t muzzleload trying to claim it’s like Hunting with a modern firearm. No way to get the ballistics from a muzzy like a modern gun.

I will admit I was not for 209 primers,i do hunt modern most years lately due to taking kids on first hunting trips past few years.The new remington muzzle loader 300 yards is not primitive weapon or short range at all,But remember in the next few years if harvest numbers go way high on muzzle loaders,you may feel the effects of modern technology as in,

Reduced seasons
Reduced permits
Less opportunities
And other regulations,and seasons to control harvest numbers .

Ya well you will feel all of those effects with the amount of predators roaming around too and everyone can point fingers. I highly doubt a 209 primer is going to increase harvest success a substantial amount. Probably not even noticeable. Besides maybe more people switching over out of curiousity. We saw an EQUAL amount of cougars as elk this year archery hunting 356. 3 elk total and 3 cougars in 5 days. Not one deer. Many many miles covered and glassed. William Douglas wilderness area mostly.

[GoldenRing270]

I would like it to stay the way it is and I hunt with a muzzy on the westside. If we allow 209's then whats next? Scopes? Closed breech? There is a lot of long range muzzleloader talk these days with the new Remington being introduced. Say the 209's become legal then 5 years from now scopes are legal and guys are taking deer at 300 yards. Why would a muzzleloader hunter deserve to get the first crack at deer. At that point they may just lump muzzy and modern hunters together for a mid October 14 day season. I like it the way it is. If it is dumping rain I've got electrical tape over my muzzle and breech. It hasn't failed me yet but if and when it ever does that is part of the muzzleloader hunters challenge and that is part of the reason muzzleloaders get to be the first weapons that go bang in the woods.

[hunter399]

My bighorn with musket caps and peep sight is a 200 yard gun when I do my part, I’m sure using a 209 is not going to turn it into a 300 yard gun. You still gotta keep your powder dry and you still gotta use open sights whether or not caps or 209 is used. I’m all for another ignition option personally.

Funny all these guys who don’t muzzleload trying to claim it’s like Hunting with a modern firearm. No way to get the ballistics from a muzzy like a modern gun.

I will admit I was not for 209 primers,i do hunt modern most years lately due to taking kids on first hunting trips past few years.The new remington muzzle loader 300 yards is not primitive weapon or short range at all,But remember in the next few years if harvest numbers go way high on muzzle loaders,you may feel the effects of modern technology as in,

Reduced seasons
Reduced permits
Less opportunities
And other regulations,and seasons to control harvest numbers .

Ya well you will feel all of those effects with the amount of predators roaming around too and everyone can point fingers. I highly doubt a 209 primer is going to increase harvest success a substantial amount. Probably not even noticeable. Besides maybe more people switching over out of curiousity. We saw an EQUAL amount of cougars as elk this year archery hunting 356. 3 elk total and 3 cougars in 5 days. Not one deer. Many many miles covered and glassed. William Douglas wilderness area mostly.

When they do decide to reduce harvest there gonna say to protect populations from over harvest,not because of ignition.

I'm happy to see sportsmen win a battle for the better good of the sport.

[Duckslayer89]

I would like it to stay the way it is and I hunt with a muzzy on the westside. If we allow 209's then whats next? Scopes? Closed breech? There is a lot of long range muzzleloader talk these days with the new Remington being introduced. Say the 209's become legal then 5 years from now scopes are legal and guys are taking deer at 300 yards. Why would a muzzleloader hunter deserve to get the first crack at deer. At that point they may just lump muzzy and modern hunters together for a mid October 14 day season. I like it the way it is. If it is dumping rain I've got electrical tape over my muzzle and breech. It hasn't failed me yet but if and when it ever does that is part of the muzzleloader hunters challenge and that is part of the reason muzzleloaders get to be the first weapons that go bang in the woods.

I don’t think it’s legal to cover your breech... but I’m not 100% on that.

[GoldenRing270]

It is legal to tape your muzzle and breech.

[jamesfromseattle]

I would like it to stay the way it is and I hunt with a muzzy on the westside. If we allow 209's then whats next? Scopes? Closed breech? There is a lot of long range muzzleloader talk these days with the new Remington being introduced. Say the 209's become legal then 5 years from now scopes are legal and guys are taking deer at 300 yards. Why would a muzzleloader hunter deserve to get the first crack at deer. At that point they may just lump muzzy and modern hunters together for a mid October 14 day season. I like it the way it is. If it is dumping rain I've got electrical tape over my muzzle and breech. It hasn't failed me yet but if and when it ever does that is part of the muzzleloader hunters challenge and that is part of the reason muzzleloaders get to be the first weapons that go bang in the woods.

I think the new proposed regs does away with the open breech/exposes to the elements thing, right?

[duckmen1]

I would like it to stay the way it is and I hunt with a muzzy on the westside. If we allow 209's then whats next? Scopes? Closed breech? There is a lot of long range muzzleloader talk these days with the new Remington being introduced. Say the 209's become legal then 5 years from now scopes are legal and guys are taking deer at 300 yards. Why would a muzzleloader hunter deserve to get the first crack at deer. At that point they may just lump muzzy and modern hunters together for a mid October 14 day season. I like it the way it is. If it is dumping rain I've got electrical tape over my muzzle and breech. It hasn't failed me yet but if and when it ever does that is part of the muzzleloader hunters challenge and that is part of the reason muzzleloaders get to be the first weapons that go bang in the woods.

I think the new proposed regs does away with the open breech/exposes to the elements thing, right?

Thats the way i read it yes.

[jackelope]

My bighorn with musket caps and peep sight is a 200 yard gun when I do my part, I’m sure using a 209 is not going to turn it into a 300 yard gun. You still gotta keep your powder dry and you still gotta use open sights whether or not caps or 209 is used. I’m all for another ignition option personally.

Funny all these guys who don’t muzzleload trying to claim it’s like Hunting with a modern firearm. No way to get the ballistics from a muzzy like a modern gun.

All I’m saying is that it’s supposed to be a primitive season. Like the others said, what’s next? Remington Ultimate Muzzleloaders scoped? Maybe while we’re at it we should put laser sights on our bows or make crossbows legal for everyone during archery season. I have only ever bowhunted elk so don’t pull the “guys that don’t bow hunt” card on me. 

[Duckslayer89]

My bighorn with musket caps and peep sight is a 200 yard gun when I do my part, I’m sure using a 209 is not going to turn it into a 300 yard gun. You still gotta keep your powder dry and you still gotta use open sights whether or not caps or 209 is used. I’m all for another ignition option personally.

Funny all these guys who don’t muzzleload trying to claim it’s like Hunting with a modern firearm. No way to get the ballistics from a muzzy like a modern gun.

All I’m saying is that it’s supposed to be a primitive season. Like the others said, what’s next? Remington Ultimate Muzzleloaders scoped? Maybe while we’re at it we should put laser sights on our bows or make crossbows legal for everyone during archery season. I have only ever bowhunted elk so don’t pull the “guys that don’t bow hunt” card on me.

I didn’t mean to specifically call you out about it, but I do understand your concern because I don’t agree with the scopes either. Laser sights on a bow aren’t a bad idea. New proposal for 2020? 

[BigGoonTuna]

i wanna know how anyone's making 300 yard shots with iron sights on a muzzleloader.  on a good day i can stretch mine out to 150 with reasonable accuracy, but that rainbow trajectory is a killer past that. many say that a 45-70 is a 100 yard gun, well, a 50 cal muzzy isn't much different ballistically, other than getting a single chance to get the job done. 

i'm fine with 209 caps, but leave scopes off limits.  i doubt it will extend the range of anyone's rifle, but it will at least widen the variety of rifles that one could use without having a "special edition" northwest gun.  i know i probably won't go running to convert my rifle to 209 ignition, #11 mag caps have always worked great for me.  open sights and a single shot are the handicap in my opinion.  i think there's a reason they don't call it a "primitive" season here, and that seems to rub the hardcore sidelock fanatics (and recurve guys in archery) the wrong way.  other states only allow flintlocks, on the other end of the spectrum, you've got states that allow single shots with straight wall cartridges in their "primitive" seaons.

[Sabotloader]

My bighorn with musket caps and peep sight is a 200 yard gun when I do my part, I’m sure using a 209 is not going to turn it into a 300 yard gun. You still gotta keep your powder dry and you still gotta use open sights whether or not caps or 209 is used. I’m all for another ignition option personally.

Funny all these guys who don’t muzzleload trying to claim it’s like Hunting with a modern firearm. No way to get the ballistics from a muzzy like a modern gun.

All I’m saying is that it’s supposed to be a primitive season. Like the others said, what’s next? Remington Ultimate Muzzleloaders scoped? Maybe while we’re at it we should put laser sights on our bows or make crossbows legal for everyone during archery season. I have only ever bowhunted elk so don’t pull the “guys that don’t bow hunt” card on me.

Where in the regulations is it called a 'Primitive Season"?  When the ML seasons first started most were considered 'Primitive' hunts arranged and organized by traditionalists.

Long ago they progressed from that when the different fish and game departments recognized the value of them as Management Hunts.  They have and are using the hunts as a tool to reach the goals that wildlife biologists have set for individual areas and in most instances now as method to get a limited harvest and gain a revenue source. 

Maintaining the current sight rules and the fact that you have one shot will still maintain the lower harvest rates.  There will be possibly an increase in the number in the field for a short period of time while the novelty of the 209 first starts but it will level out. There are many other ML rifles out there other than the Remington that can reach to 300+ but the normal hunter without a optics will not find the ability to do that.

Another thought for the 300 yard people - do you not think that a primitive ML of the 1860's in the hands of the right person could not harvest an animal at 300+ yards. I can not for sure, but look up some the longest shots made with sidelock and see what they are especially in the age of the big lead conicals..

 

[GoldenRing270]

I'm sure there are many people capable of shooting an iron sight ML 300 yards but that's not the point. Don't go fixing something that's not broken. Allowing 209's only sets the stage for the addition of scopes which leads to more hunters and greater harvest where long range shots become the norm. This inevitably leads to a more limited ML hunting opportunity and ML hunters already get the short end of the stick as it is. I would support a push for more ML special permit opportunities but keep the weapons as they are.

[buglebrush]

209 doesn't set the stage for Scopes.  Two completely unrelated issues.  It gets a little tiring when the only argument used is "slippery slope" and general hyperbole. 

I'll wager $50 to any takers that you can't consistently hit a 6" Target at 300 yards with your open sighted muzzy.  It's BS and downright dishonesty to pretend you can.

[floatinghat]

Another thought for the 300 yard people - do you not think that a primitive ML of the 1860's in the hands of the right person could not harvest an animal at 300+ yards. I can not for sure, but look up some the longest shots made with sidelock and see what they are especially in the age of the big lead conicals..

 

100% agree and I am concerned that too many over estimate their ability to shoot long range (open sights or scoped).  Many older muzzys have the ability to accurately rainbow out a big chunk of lead a long distance.  Some of the new LR muzzy's have the trajectory too no longer rainbow a lighter bullet backed by 200gr of powder, it will happen.

[Duckslayer89]

I'm sure there are many people capable of shooting an iron sight ML 300 yards but that's not the point. Don't go fixing something that's not broken. Allowing 209's only sets the stage for the addition of scopes which leads to more hunters and greater harvest where long range shots become the norm. This inevitably leads to a more limited ML hunting opportunity and ML hunters already get the short end of the stick as it is. I would support a push for more ML special permit opportunities but keep the weapons as they are.

The argument could be made that the more people that get into muzzy hunting the better the opportunity would be.