Long range loads and penetration.

[Coasthunterjay]

Maybe i should just stick with a 180 accubond? or 200accubond?

what is the difference?

[JoshT]

Can't go wrong with the 200 Accubond...

Out of my rifle the BC for the 200 AB worked out to be about .500... which is a far cry from the .560 they list in the manual... but pretty decent for a "hunting" bullet. I just can't give up the .640 BC of the 210 Berger (or 208 Amax)... even though my rifle shot the ABs pretty well out to 7-800 yards. Like I said in my PM... it's the wind that will eat your lunch... that's where the extra .140 in BC really makes the difference.

[Jamieb]

Josh
What do you think of the 210 bergers? Do you like them better then the A-max's?
I havent seen a 210 Berger but its got to be long. Are you loading them to the mag well or single feeding them?

[Curly]

I wouldn't go w/ Barnes for the really, really, really long shots that you are talking about.  Their BC's are not all that good and they don't open up very well at lower velocities.

If you are stictly going to be shooting at very long ranges, then the bullet needs to open up easy.  That said, the accubond would be a good choice if you think you might take a "close" shot........and it has a relatively high BC for those extremely long shots too.

I shoot Barnes TSX bullets, but I won't shoot past 500 yards with it.  I use them so that the bullet doesn't blow up if I need to shoot something less than 150 yards where other bullets may blow up.

[bobcat]

If you're only shooting at long range (past 300 yards) I'd go with Ballistic Tips. Accurate and they open up easily which is what you need when you're talking about shooting at long range.

[Huntbear]

For long range bullets, you should definitely look at Berger Bullets and work up your handloads.  I would not trust factory ammo past 4-500 yards, imho.  There is a reason long distance shooters load their own, sometimes right at the bench.

[Red Dawg]

I get much better performance with 200 grain accubonds out my rum. I get much tighter groups.

[JoshT]

Josh
What do you think of the 210 bergers? Do you like them better then the A-max's?
I havent seen a 210 Berger but its got to be long. Are you loading them to the mag well or single feeding them?

You've seen them... that's what I was shooting when I was down there shooting with you guys in July. I modified the mag box... so I can run one in the chamber and one in the mag. If I need more than two rounds of .300 RUM... I need to quit shooting. I believe I shot some of the A-Maxs when I was there too... but I only had a few of them. To be honest... I'd shoot either one... I didn't see any difference in trajectory between the two... my gun prefers the Berger, so that's what I shoot. My buddy got the exact same rifle, and his likes the Amax better... same load... pretty much same velocity. You know how it is... feed'em what they like. In fact... if I remember right, I even shot a couple of your 200 grain AB loads out of my rifle. It was at that basketball sized rock about 800 yards across the canyon... they shot pretty good, but about 18" lower than the Berger and about a foot more wind ( I was using the dope for the Berger).

We did recover a 208 Amax that killed a black bear at somewhere around 525-550 yards... it only retained about 45%... but she went down hard, and the inside of the bear looked like 10 gallons of raspberry jam! Bullet was recovered under the off side hide. An Accubond would have exited... no doubt... but I bet the bear would have gone a ways before it went down. For my money it acted about like a ballistic tip, some folks don't like that... I've killed enough stuff with NBTs that I'm ok with it. I'd expect about the same thing out of the Berger.

All that being said: I think the 200 AB is probably the best all-around bullet for the big .300's, especially if you're talking shots anywhere from the muzzle to 600+. I agree that the Barnes is probably not the best choice... but they have proven to be solid killers, even way out there.

Here's a pic of the recovered 208 Amax... the bear went about 10 feet.

[JoshT]

By the way Jamie... if you want a few of the 210s and a few of the 208s, I'll drop some in the mail for you... I have a bunch of both lying around. Hell, I have some of the 240 Sierra Match King "footballs" if you want some of those too... even with a break those will rattle your teeth, and they hit like a ton of bricks on the steel.

[Jamieb]

Josh. You gave my some of the 208's last summer. They shot great but I loaded them to kiss the lands and that's way too long for my mag. I'm happy with the 200gr. Accubond load in my 300 RUM. I'm pretty much done experimenting with loads in that rifle, I still shoot it a lot but no more load development, just bust rocks and hunt.
Works kept me so busy this winter that I haven't gotten out nearly enough. When I've had the free time and the weather hasnt sucked. I've been carrying the 22-250 and calling yotes.

[Intruder]

Length is good... but shape is much more important. And, the BC that Barnes lists for their bullets is rather optimistic in my experience.

Barnes got beat up a few years ago about their BCs.  As such they went out and had an independent lab do their BC calculations at range (300 yards I think).  As such, they are some of the most accurate published.  I'd be a lot more skeptical of some of the other bullets out there in terms of their published BCs. Many companies use overly optimistic Drag constants when they formulate their published BCs.  Seirra is pretty true from what I hear. 

TSX is a heck of a choice if they shoot well in your gun.  Great terminal effects.  My buddy used to shoot 220 Match Kings out of his 30-378.  They worked great.  When he talked to Seirra they informed him that the 220 actually has a much heavier jacket than other MK bullets so it has some real good structual integrity.

I'd be really leery of shooting too slow a gun if you're really gonna focus on shots out past 500 yards.  You really run the risk of poor penetration and or bullet performance which you cannot solve by simply shooting a lighter jacketed/faster expandig bullet.  You hit a 800 lb bull in the shoulder at that range with a crappy bullet and you're likely to have a long track on your hands.

[Wenatcheejay]

Well, find a place where you can practice at the distance that you want to hunt at. You can use minutes of angle on a 100 yd range for an idea of what should happen. I would find the heaviest bullet you can shoot in your chosen rifle and see how it shoots. I like the .338 300 gr Serria Matchking. I have also used the Remington Core Lock in 6.5 x 284 out to 600 yds and the Lapua Senar 139 gr in 6.5 x 284. The Serria GameKing is OK in .308. (all for accuracy on paper)

I have only used the .338 Matchking in a long range situation on game. I have seen it used out to 1000 yds with a clean kill. That is to far for me but I have seen it and it can be done in the right hands with the right configuration.

I also used a Hornaday Maglite load in .308 on game at about 400 yds (that is a factory load) but it did well.

[JoshT]

Barnes got beat up a few years ago about their BCs.  As such they went out and had an independent lab do their BC calculations at range (300 yards I think).  As such, they are some of the most accurate published.  I'd be a lot more skeptical of some of the other bullets out there in terms of their published BCs. Many companies use overly optimistic Drag constants when they formulate their published BCs.  Seirra is pretty true from what I hear. 

I know the ones I've shot were no where near what they had published... that includes the 6mm/85, 25/100&115, 7mm/120&140, and the .30/165&180... that seems like a pretty decent sample to me. All of them seemed to be about .050 below what was listed... some were worse than that. The 180's I shot out of my .300 RUM were terrible... they shot great at 100 and 200, but then went all to hell when ranges were stretched out to 500-700. I don't know what was happening... but because of the vertical stringing, I would suspect a large variance in the BC bullet-to-bullet. I know there are a lot of factors that effect what the actuall BC is... I just know the Barnes is not my choice for LR work. If I needed to clobber somthing that could stomp me into a fine paste... I'd reach for the TSX though!

I'm with you on the velocity, it's especially important when you're shooting a stout bullet like the Barnes or AB. That's where the big .300s really shine... you can launch a pretty sizeable pill(180-210 grains), and still keep the velocity up above 3k. I know my Bergers are still supersonic well past 1000 yards... that means I have enough velocity to make the bullet work, and I know the only critter that'd take fire at that range is a coyote.

[Intruder]

I know the ones I've shot were no where near what they had published... that includes the 6mm/85, 25/100&115, 7mm/120&140, and the .30/165&180... that seems like a pretty decent sample to me. All of them seemed to be about .050 below what was listed... some were worse than that.

Interesting.... may be worth getting a couple cronos and doing some independent validation.  Were you using recently published BCs or say stuff from 05 or before?  I'd call em and talk to em...  they're very up front with their data.

I've always thought BCs were way over stated from a practical standpoint because they are often based on an unfired bullet shape and the aforementioned tampering/optimistic Drag Constants in the formulas.  Seems that once the bullet leaves the barrel the rifling marks have already degraded the BC from what is published  .  Velocity supposedly changes it to, though I don't claim to understand why.  Using 2 cronos is supposedly the best for truly determining BC. 

Very funny thing... BC is

[Coasthunterjay]

So what bullet should i go with? accubond, barnes MRX, or a regular Ballistic tip.......

HOW MUCH IS A CHRONO?