Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[jasnt]

While I have seen wolf tracks in my area, cougar tracks are daily thing. I also trap and average 90-120 days a year in the woods.  Twice I have had aggressive confrontations with cats and once my side arm saved my life.  It’s not uncommon to see a cat a week during trapping season.  I have come across 5 cougar hanging out in the road all mature cats. They just mossied off in 2 directions. If you look three my trapping threads you’ll see many cougar kills I’ve posted.   Ne corner has lots of wolves but cats imo are way over populated! 

Rustlers gulch in south 117 used to be one of the best whitetail hunting areas I’ve ever seen. Don’t see many deer in there anymore.  Haven’t seen much at all for coyote in there last five years. 

[elkboy]

Just wanted to make an observation- down in the lowlands of the Palouse, where cougar and wolves are essentially absent, I have seen a substantial reduction of whitetail numbers from two years of bluetongue and the 2016-2017 winter. I would never say that predators do not have impact, however.

Bears and coyotes kill fawns and calves, and those are species with fairly liberal harvest rules. Maybe focus on those, and see if there is a positive effect on recruitment?

[jackmaster]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

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Thank God someone sees it. The overall problem is really obvious to me. It's not JUST wolves.  If you think it is, you've got blinders on.

JM, I don't think you've been following the discussion closely. I personally haven't said it's just wolves, but I have said we already had a predator problem in WA because of the anti-hounds and baiting initiative passed in '96. In light of the fact that we'd already lost control of predator populations, can you really say that it was responsible to add another one that'll likely never be hunted in this state, at least until it's way too late? Cougertail is a record stuck on "it's cougars, it's cougars, it's cougars!!!" It's all of 'em and introducing wolves on top was idiotic. We should probably add grizzlies before we know the complete impact of the wolf introduction and then consider tigers and/or velociraptors. Our WDFW is completely blind to the predator problem we have and keeps throwing more fuel on the fire.

I will be honest pman when they introduce the velorapture that's a predator I will get behind because there will be a serious deduct in hunters in the woods and I WOULD LOVE a chance to hunt a velacarapture (sp) on his own terms 

[trophyhunt]

Haven’t had hound hunting or baiting for bears and cats for around 20 years.  Everyone agrees that ALL predators are a problem, so why all of a sudden are the numbers of deer elk and moose dropping?  We’ve had a couple easy winters, had enough elk just a few years ago to have a ridiculous amount of special permits. The one difference in the past few years is, guess what, wolves!  Adding the wolves have certainly had a negative impact on our herds, FACT or FICTION ?? Simple question

[buglebrush]

Haven’t had hound hunting or baiting for bears and cats for around 20 years.  Everyone agrees that ALL predators are a problem, so why all of a sudden are the numbers of deer elk and moose dropping?  We’ve had a couple easy winters, had enough elk just a few years ago to have a ridiculous amount of special permits. The one difference in the past few years is, guess what, wolves!  Adding the wolves have certainly had a negative impact on our herds, FACT or FICTION ?? Simple question

Because Wolves are the tipping point.  Read Malcom Gladwell.  Relatively small changes that push someone past a tipping point have enormous and profound impacts. 

Wolves are the tipping point for Western ungulates.  Wolf apologists can choose to prevaricate all they wish, but it doesn't change the facts.

[Oh Mah]

I disagree,  that's like saying that 40% are killed by coyotes 30% by cougars 10% by bears but the 20% that are killed by wolves are the problem. 

[headshot5]

The biggest problem is we (citizens) are unable to manage wolves.   All the others (coyotes,  bears, cougars, etc.) we have at least the opportunity to kill (within respective seasons).  For example, if I have a honey hole, I can remove predators to allow it to continue being a honey hole.  Until a pack of wolves moves in.  Then it's over.   

Now consider that honey hole analogy and apply it to the state of Washington.   As soon as wolves move into an area, there is nothing you can do to reverse the effects because as regular citizens our hands are legally tied.     

[buglebrush]

I disagree,  that's like saying that 40% are killed by coyotes 30% by cougars 10% by bears but the 20% that are killed by wolves are the problem. 

I don't think you understand a tipping point.

[Special T]

I disagree,  that's like saying that 40% are killed by coyotes 30% by cougars 10% by bears but the 20% that are killed by wolves are the problem. 

I don't think you understand a tipping point.

The straw the broke the camels back. 2c

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[Oh Mah]

I understand all the b/s talking  points and i know you understand the getting to the tipping.breaking the camel the straw and all that as well is half the problem.Just like everyone else is saying.the wolves are a problem (all be it a small one)but the biggest problem is all the others that got us to this point.DON'T TRIP OVER A $5. TO PICK UP A $1. 

You're not seeing the forest thru the tree's

anyone else got more?

Also if you want to get technical the biggest problem is cars and i think we are seeing this state doing something about that.Are they building overpasses in Idaho?

[KFhunter]

Wolves aren't a small problem in regions hit hardest by them, statewide they lag behind mt. lions for total deer killed sure, but in regions where wolves have a strong foot hold it's not "a small problem".    If you happen to live or hunt in those area's you'd be on here saying they're a very big problem.

[trophyhunt]

I’m debating with another wolf lover on Facebook, he just brought up that Yellowstone video that says the wolves brought back the flowers in the meadows by killing the elk!!!  That video is halirious!  Nobody answered my easy question

[Timberstalker]

Wolves aren't a small problem in regions hit hardest by them, statewide they lag behind mt. lions for total deer killed sure, but in regions where wolves have a strong foot hold it's not "a small problem".    If you happen to live or hunt in those area's you'd be on here saying they're a very big problem.

Valid point!

[Oh Mah]

Wolves aren't a small problem in regions hit hardest by them, statewide they lag behind mt. lions for total deer killed sure, but in regions where wolves have a strong foot hold it's not "a small problem".    If you happen to live or hunt in those area's you'd be on here saying they're a very big problem.

I hope this isnt aimed at me because i don't think its a small problem at all.Just pointing out the fact that all of them together need dealt with and us hunters can do a large portion of fixing it legally.Our native friends can fix part of it for us also legally.Everyone keeps bringing up quotas what about the native quotas oh wait there are none.The state puts (to us)unfair quotas because the Natives have there share if our quotas are filled or almost filled then we need to ask our fellow native hunters to step up their game and take out some of these predators with and for us. 

[jasnt]

Wolves aren't a small problem in regions hit hardest by them, statewide they lag behind mt. lions for total deer killed sure, but in regions where wolves have a strong foot hold it's not "a small problem".    If you happen to live or hunt in those area's you'd be on here saying they're a very big problem.

I hope this isnt aimed at me because i don't think its a small problem at all.Just pointing out the fact that all of them together need dealt with and us hunters can do a large portion of fixing it legally.Our native friends can fix part of it for us also legally.Everyone keeps bringing up quotas what about the native quotas oh wait there are none.The state puts (to us)unfair quotas because the Natives have there share if our quotas are filled or almost filled then we need to ask our fellow native hunters to step up their game and take out some of these predators with and for us. 

they do. Check out bucks, bills and predators on fab. It’s from the Colville tribe if I remember right