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Author Topic: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...  (Read 3759 times)

Offline mfswallace

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The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« on: April 26, 2018, 10:35:12 PM »
http://mynorthwest.com/967315/washington-native-american-tribes-salmon-case/amp/


Former Washington state Attorney General Rob McKenna says it’s the most important case Washingtonians have never heard about, yet its results could dramatically change how government works in the Pacific Northwest.

“It really is breathtaking in its potential implications,” McKenna told KIRO Radio’s Dave Ross.

RELATED: How Washington’s effort led to the seizure of Backpage.com

The issue surrounds the influence Native American tribes have on local and state governments. While the case itself centers on culverts that affect salmon runs, McKenna argues there is legal engineering going on that could place the tribes in a position to co-govern much of the state.

“It’s not because most tribal members depend on fish to make their living; some do, but most don’t,” he said. “It’s because it’s a way to restore sovereign control over lands they used to own. I appreciate that objective. I understand why they are pursuing it. But it’s not what the treaties were about. And it’s not something that the State of Washington or its local governments can accept.”

The right to salmon
The legal relationship between Washington state, the United States government, and the Northwest’s Native American tribes dates back to the mid-1800s when a series of treaties were signed. Those treaties essentially detailed who had a right to what — which lands were exchanged and where tribes could fish. In short, tribes were granted the right to always fish where they traditionally had. That notion was upheld in the 1970s Boldt decision.

But a lingering treaty issue has led to the United States Supreme Court.

“The treaties grant the tribes a right, in perpetuity, to access their traditional fishing grounds,” McKenna said. “The two questions that have been litigated over the last 40-plus years have to do with how much of the fish they are entitled to. In the Boldt decision, it was decided they are entitled to half. Then, in this case, that went to the Supreme Court, the question is what happens when there are fewer fish to catch because of something the state has done. In this case, building culverts under state highways, and on park land, and lands owned by the State of Washington.”

Such culverts can choke off streams that salmon use to spawn, threatening the number of fish that the tribes historically relied upon.

When McKenna was attorney general, he repeatedly offered to settle the culvert case issue. Many culverts under natural resources and state parks have already been replaced. And the Washington State Department of Transportation has been systematically replacing them. McKenna said he offered a fixed schedule to replace all remaining culverts. But those offers were consistently turned down. McKenna says this is because there is a larger plan in the works.

Native American tribes and treaties
McKenna says that Washington state tribes want to establish that their treaty rights to fish give them a role and a right to any decision that affects the fish population. Such authority could touch many governing decisions from water rights and permits, to land use policy, etc.

“It was very telling when the tribes filed their brief through the United States government in the Supreme Court that they shifted from the traditional standard in this case – what would be the right amount of fish to ensure the tribes a ‘moderate living’ – which are the words that have been used for decades,” McKenna said. “They’ve shifted to this idea of a ‘substantial degradation of the fish supply,’ which is a new standard that we haven’t seen before.”

“And it really goes to what I’m saying; they want to go to a guaranteed supply of fish, and therefore, a say in anything that affects the number of fish,” he said. “There is a lot of agreement that culverts should be replaced. There is not an agreement that tribes are co-sovereign with state and local government over any decision that can affect the number of fish.”

McKenna argues that, on one hand, it’s true that the tribes were not signing up for treaties under which the state could block every salmon-bearing stream with a road or a highway. But at the same time, the government of the day was not agreeing to give tribes a co-sovereign role in the management of lands and waters.

“No one thought there would ever be a question about the amount of fish (back then),” McKenna said. “There was so many salmon and natural resources, people thought they were inexhaustible. Of course, they were proved to be wrong.”

Other leaders in the region have argued that the Supreme Court should side with the tribes, such as King County Executive Dow Constantine.

Rob McKenna filed a brief with the Supreme Court on behalf of the Washington State Association of Counties and the Association of Washington Cities opposing the tribes’ case.

Offline Houndhunter

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 06:04:06 AM »
Tribes  :puke:

Offline Special T

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 06:23:23 AM »
This is directly connected to the Hirst decision fiasco about ground water. Brian Cladsooby of the Swinomish have been leading this.
We have all seen how the ESA has breen used as a tool by the anti hunters for years, this is the tribal extension of this.

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« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 01:59:44 PM by Special T »
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 06:30:26 AM »
Graft.  It is about creating sufficient opportunity for graft.   You can't trust our elected reps and their bureaucrats to have your back here.

Offline Gamblin Guy

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 07:19:35 AM »
This has been in the works for years, here's an article from 2006 that really points to the end game of all of this.....

http://www.heraldnet.com/news/tribes-seek-greater-clout/




Offline jackmaster

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 07:50:13 AM »
Tag
my grandpa always said "if it aint broke dont fix it"

Offline Antlershed

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 08:14:51 AM »
I’m not sure what would be worse...having my land controlled by the tribes, or Thurston County.  :bdid:

Online Southpole

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 08:35:27 AM »
Just another tool in their belt as a controlling devise. The tribes took that page right out of the ESA’s play book... or was it the other way around... Some judge’s hand will get greased with casino money and let it all go forward.
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline bigtex

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 08:38:31 AM »
Just another tool in their belt as a controlling devise. The tribes took that page right out of the ESA’s play book... or was it the other way around... Some judge’s hand will get greased with casino money and let it all go forward.
"Some judge?" How about the US Supreme Court...

Online Southpole

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 08:41:01 AM »
Just another tool in their belt as a controlling devise. The tribes took that page right out of the ESA’s play book... or was it the other way around... Some judge’s hand will get greased with casino money and let it all go forward.
"Some judge?" How about the US Supreme Court...
Either way... I’m a pessimistic person with little faith in humanity these days  :'(
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline Humptulips

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 10:16:07 AM »
The best counter to this is not the courts IMO. Threaten to legalize casino gambling would get the tribes attention. The State Democratic party is heavily influenced by all the tribal casino money though so not likely to happen IMO.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline KNOPHISH

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 10:42:43 AM »
I'm wondering how they built all the casinos without any culverts? They are part of the population & infrastructure of the area.
I have Man Chit to do

Offline Skillet

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 01:11:03 PM »
The best counter to this is not the courts IMO. Threaten to legalize casino gambling would get the tribes attention. The State Democratic party is heavily influenced by all the tribal casino money though so not likely to happen IMO.

 :yeah:

Unfortunately, casino money buys a lot of power and influence - including the power and influence needed to keep the white man from getting into the game.
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Offline WSU

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 01:20:15 PM »
The tribes will need to be careful with how far they push this.  It's all well and good for the public when it is culverts.  Wait until this shuts down commercial fishing in Alaska, causes the feds to have to tear down dams, seriously hinders development, etc.  There will be a lot of political pressure from folks with even more money than the tribes to address the treaties.  If they aren't careful, the tribes might very well kill the golden goose.

Offline Bucks2Ducks

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Re: The most important Washington lawsuit you never heard of...
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 01:29:34 PM »

But since the State has such a terrible track record of managing the resources then at this point I say let the tribes have a go at it, just as long as long as we the recs. get a cut of the fish. I would pay more for a tribal fishing license as long as there were more and better quality opportunity than we have now :twocents:
It has more to do with then just recreational opportunities. It has to do with the tribe controlling everything. Telling you that you can’t build a house on your 200k lot because the water rights would effect the salmon. Telling a small time dairy farmer he can no longer graze cattle on his pasture cause the run off is polluting the creek. Basically taking control and turning everything down that doesn’t directly financially benefit the tribe.
Yes it’s time for changes to the treaties, how about equal rights for everybody.
When the buffalo are gone we will hunt mice, for we are hunters and we want our freedom-Sitting Bull

 


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