No Summer Crabbing in MA 11 and 13!!

[spoonman]

There has been next to no management on this fishery by all parties involved.  Another huge fail by WDFW!

[WSU]

I see a lot of references to the tribes and red rock crab.  I am unaware of a commercial red rock season by state or tribal fishermen.  I am not sure why a state biologist would say that the tribes would not go for it?  That makes no sense.  What makes sense to me is that there might be some folks too lazy to go through the effort of writing up new regulations for the two closed marine areas.

They try to agree on a season (I know that's been pretty unsuccessful down here in 13) with the tribes.  I suspect the tribes didn't want to parse out the impact that a rec season on red rocks would have on dungies, especially if they tribes weren't fishing. 

It could also be that enforcement didn't want to screw with policing a red rock fishery when dungies would undoubtedly be retained, released, etc.

I understand the seasonal negotiations, maybe I am naive, but I can't see the tribes or state getting wrapped up in recreational harvest of red rock crab assuming that there would be a significant enough impact by poachers keeping Dungeness crab instead of releasing them.  I understand there is a cost associated with policing, but that is already factored into the annual budget.  If they want to reduce the amount of policing, have it during popular salmon seasons when patrols should already be out on the water.

I don't know the reason.  Those are just issues I could see being raised.  How legitimate they are is another issue.

[Roosevelt]

At least two years too late.  I am happy to see that they are finally doing something about it and that the tribes are cooperating.  The fishery should have been shut down 2-3 years ago.  I grew up out Johnson Point and was cut loose with a boat when I was probably 12 years old.  There are not many people who have fished the south sound more than me over the past 25 years.  I spent a lot of time around the marina and there was always one tribal guy running pots out of Zittel's.  About five to seven years ago there were four that I knew of and I believe they were running 50 pots each seven days a week for most of the year.  About 10 years ago the recreational crabbing word really got out and there were a ton of recreational guys running pots also.  Over the past four years I watched the crab fishery go from exceptional to almost non-existent.  I used to be surprised to see other pots in an area and then it got to where you couldn't go in a straight line across the bay because there were pots everywhere (both tribal and recreational).  It started with certain areas getting fished out and I moved our pots around and was still able to find crab.  Two years ago my family and I pretty much quit crabbing because they are gone.  It is really sad that WDFW and the tribes allowed it to get to this point.  Blaming it on anything other that over-fishing is a joke from my point of view.  I hope that someday it comes back and I can take my kids out.  There is nothing like a pile of fresh hot steaming crab straight out of the pot and a cold brew.   

[WSU]

I think there is merit to the warm water conditions theory.  I talked for a while with the bio about it.  He had some pretty specific surface temps that had occurred and a good idea how larvae, which are exposed to surface temps, fair in those conditions. 

I'm sure the thousands of pots, plus thousands of lost pots, don't help either.  We can't just blame the tribal harvest because the rec pressure was intense too.

[Whitpirate]

Love that the graph of harvest shows the blue lines always just a little above recreational.  Pretty easy to "report" numbers when you get the other teams harvest.  Yes I imply they cook the books.  Sort of like the salmon harvest through the damn locks.

Man, You are ignorant! Educate yourself before you spout off please.

Prove me wrong.  Every year tribal harvest exceeds recreational by the graph shown yet when audited last year on the Lake WA fisheries their numbers were suspect at best.  Tribal enforcement for the Tulalip was caught with crabbing violations yet I’m “spouting” off?  Prove me wrong.

[trophyhunt]

Love that the graph of harvest shows the blue lines always just a little above recreational.  Pretty easy to "report" numbers when you get the other teams harvest.  Yes I imply they cook the books.  Sort of like the salmon harvest through the damn locks.

Man, You are ignorant! Educate yourself before you spout off please.

Prove me wrong.  Every year tribal harvest exceeds recreational by the graph shown yet when audited last year on the Lake WA fisheries their numbers were suspect at best.  Tribal enforcement for the Tulalip was caught with crabbing violations yet I’m “spouting” off?  Prove me wrong.

kudos to Wdfw for investigating that azz hat.

[Tbar]

Love that the graph of harvest shows the blue lines always just a little above recreational.  Pretty easy to "report" numbers when you get the other teams harvest.  Yes I imply they cook the books.  Sort of like the salmon harvest through the damn locks.

Man, You are ignorant! Educate yourself before you spout off please.

Prove me wrong.  Every year tribal harvest exceeds recreational by the graph shown yet when audited last year on the Lake WA fisheries their numbers were suspect at best.  Tribal enforcement for the Tulalip was caught with crabbing violations yet I’m “spouting” off?  Prove me wrong.

You are spouting off and fueling anti tribal sentiment without representation.  WSU touched on water temperature, although not thoroughly investigated it is likely a major factor.  This fishery is designed to be sustainable regardless of harvest level. At 6.25 inches you are preserving the resource.  The only risk to perpetuating the resource with this management scheme would be if the majority of females were larger than 6 inches (the male has to be larger Than the female to breed). This is not the case here.  So look for other determining factors.  Is there female harvest?  - seeing as they are near worthless on the comnercial market and the traps are designed not to hold them this is unlikely from the tribal side. Are the graphs accurate?  The state commercial and tribal are micromanaged to the hour so I would say there is only one fishery where they use an educated guess as well as a model (with questionable inputs), and that's the rec fishery.  This brings me back to your cooking the books comment. If there is a fishery in question it's the rec fishery, both in terms of illegal take as well as creel counts coupled with effort to formulate a guesstimate. I still would caution against jumping to this conclusion with out more comprehensive evidence.
Now back to water temps as well as the overall dynamics of the south sound.  How often does new water circulate down there? What are pollution levels?  What is the correct habitat for  megalops? What is your survivorship of adult female and reproduction rates of said females?  What is survivorship of megalops 5 years ago? 10?
I could go on without vilifying wdfw or tribes.  I would guess it's a variety of environmental factors that possibly formed a perfect storm, not exploitation.
Oh yeah, whiteknuckles, keep up the hate.  At least you fit in here. 

[Roosevelt]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article%3fsection=news&subsection=local&headline=illegal-shellfish-trafficking-ring-caught-on-video&contentId=281-537796754

You think this is the only time this has happened? The fact that you think the tribal fishery is micromanaged is a joke. I’ve watched those guys sell crab for cash straight off the boat many times. Who knows what gets reported and how many nighttime operations go on. I’m not saying the over-harvest is all tribal, but in my opinion much of the blame lands here. In the end, it’s the inability of the state and the tribes to co-manage. And, I will never be convinced that the fishery was set up to be sustainable. Surface water temps may have some impact as well, but when there are hundreds and hundreds of pots in a small area such as area 13 it is going to get fished out quickly. That’s exactly what happened. I lived it and watched it happen right in front of my nose. There is no way it is a coincidence that all of that pressure happened at the same time as the fishery dropped by over 90 percent. I am just happy that they have actually closed it down. Hopefully it will come back.

[trophyhunt]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article%3fsection=news&subsection=local&headline=illegal-shellfish-trafficking-ring-caught-on-video&contentId=281-537796754

You think this is the only time this has happened? The fact that you think the tribal fishery is micromanaged is a joke. I’ve watched those guys sell crab for cash straight off the boat many times. Who knows what gets reported and how many nighttime operations go on. I’m not saying the over-harvest is all tribal, but in my opinion much of the blame lands here. In the end, it’s the inability of the state and the tribes to co-manage. And, I will never be convinced that the fishery was set up to be sustainable. Surface water temps may have some impact as well, but when there are hundreds and hundreds of pots in a small area such as area 13 it is going to get fished out quickly. That’s exactly what happened. I lived it and watched it happen right in front of my nose. There is no way it is a coincidence that all of that pressure happened at the same time as the fishery dropped by over 90 percent. I am just happy that they have actually closed it down. Hopefully it will come back.

👍🏻

[AL WORRELLS KID]

Perhaps by closing the Season and allowing the WDFW to update my license fees (by moving to small, incremental yearly increases,) the WDFW will develop some ideas on how to get me to still buy another Fishing Licence in 2019. 
 Doug

[Mallardmasher]

Commericial pots all over in 11, and crad boat tied up to buoy in ohlalla by Al's market, same boat that brag's about his over quota ever year. Use to be great, then bombarded by Commericial pots last 7-10 years, 1-2 months before our season opens. Now nothing. Hmmmmmmm

[Tbar]

Commericial pots all over in 11, and crad boat tied up to buoy in ohlalla by Al's market, same boat that brag's about his over quota ever year. Use to be great, then bombarded by Commericial pots last 7-10 years, 1-2 months before our season opens. Now nothing. Hmmmmmmm

This year?

[Mallardmasher]

Saw at least 50 pots and the boat tied up to the bouy a few days ago