Woodland Caribou of WA....and ID/BC

[Molon5labe]

You may not know, but WA and ID occasionally have some woodland caribou that come down from BC into the Selkirks. I took an interest in them a year or so ago after I discovered we actually have caribou in WA, but could not find much current info about them until I recently found episode #42 of Steven Rinella's Meateater podcast. If you have a couple hours or so, its a great listen. He talks with Bart George, A wildlife bio with the Kalispell Tribe DNR. Being the podcast was 2 years old I emailed Bart to find out current info on the caribou. The future is bleak. Down to 3 cows, none pregnant. The nearest, Purcell herd, is down to 3 bulls and 1 cow. There is talk about joining the herds but no hard plans in place. He said its up to Canadian officials and urged me to contact them to act now.

Anyways...I just find it a bit sad and thought some other people would like to know about the situation. Ill leave the contact info for the Canadian officials below if you get the urge to do something.





Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development

 

Minister: Honourable Doug Donaldson
 Mail: Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development
 PO Box 9049 Stn Prov Govt
 Victoria, BC V8W 9E2

Email:  FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca

 

Assistant Deputy Minister: Tom Ethier 

Mail: Assistant Deputy Minister, Resource Stewardship Division

P.O. Box 9352 Stn Prov Govt
 Victoria BC, V8W 9M1
 Email: Tom.Ethier@gov.bc.ca

 

 

Executive Director, Provincial Caribou Recovery Program:  Paul Rasmussen

Mail: Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development

1902 Theatre Rd.

Cranbrook BC, V1C 7G1

Email:  Paul.Rasmussen@gov.bc.ca

 

Ministry of Environment and Climate Change Strategy

 

Minister: Honourable George Heyman

Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy
 PO Box 9047 Stn Prov Gov
 Victoria, BC V8W 9E2

Email:  ENV.Minister@gov.bc.ca

 

Assistant Deputy Minister: Jennifer McGuire

Mail: Environmental Sustainability and Strategic Policy Division

PO Box 9339 Stn Prov Govt
 Victoria BC, V8W 9M1
 Email: Jennifer.Mcguire@gov.bc.ca

[CedarPants]

I wish WDFW was even 1/4 as focused on saving these animals as they are on 'saving' wolves.  It's a disgrace, honestly.

[10thmountainarcher]

I believe Bart may be a member of the forum.

[Hoythunter]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

[X-Force]

I believe Bart may be a member of the forum.

He is
@WAcoyotehunter

Caribou are in a sad state.

[meatwhack]

I think the areas in NE Washington and North Idaho are on the very southern fringe of these caribou’s normal range which I believe had a significant impact as to why they didn’t thrive.

[dwils233]

I think the areas in NE Washington and North Idaho are on the very southern fringe of these caribou’s normal range which I believe had a significant impact as to why they didn’t thrive.

Actually even about 100 years ago that herd was still healthy enough that Teddy Roosevelt went on a hunt out of Priest Lake for them and I believe numbered in the 50-70 range as recently as the 80's. Loss of the old growth forest played a huge double-whammy role in the decline, first their food source was dependent on it, and then they cleared out areas from logging allowed moose and whitetail to move up the mountain and the predators followed behind them finally able to bridge up to the old growth subalpine area where the caribou exist

 WAcoyotehunter is the guy with the most knowledge on the subject though so I stand to be corrected if he says so

[dwils233]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

[idaho guy]

I think the areas in NE Washington and North Idaho are on the very southern fringe of these caribou’s normal range which I believe had a significant impact as to why they didn’t thrive.

Actually even about 100 years ago that herd was still healthy enough that Teddy Roosevelt went on a hunt out of Priest Lake for them and I believe numbered in the 50-70 range as recently as the 80's. Loss of the old growth forest played a huge double-whammy role in the decline, first their food source was dependent on it, and then they cleared out areas from logging allowed moose and whitetail to move up the mountain and the predators followed behind them finally able to bridge up to the old growth subalpine area where the caribou exist

 WAcoyotehunter is the guy with the most knowledge on the subject though so I stand to be corrected if he says so

   fyi- Teddy Roosevelt did not hunt caribou in Idaho he went to what is now sandpoint to take the wildhorse trail to Kooteny lake where he hunted caribou in CANADA! I wish we could have native caribou but Idaho was definitely on the fringe of their habitat and we ended up having a few around due to migration. The enviromentalists used the caribou to push their typical agenda of locking down the forest to protect old growth forests. Same playbook they used with the spotted owl. If you want to see how succesfull that was, look up the population trends of the spotted owl next summer when you cant go outside and breath because of all the forest fires. Again caribou herds in Idaho and eastern wa would be amazing but the work needs to be done in Canada where they live FULL time. The work is killing wolves not locking up North Idaho forests from use and proper management.     

[Hoythunter]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

How educated are you about the numbers of Caribou in the panhandle?  I’m willing to bet I’ve spent more time in their “habitat” than most.  I’m fairly well connected to the business owners and residents of that area.  That said, I can’t think of anyone that’s ever seen one of these ghosts.  Check that, even a track.  I’m with you and most when it comes to protecting a species and doing what we can as conservationist to protect said herd and support reviving efforts.  That said, sorry, the efforts over the past 15 years have done more harm than good in my opinion.  Real people, real lives have been adversely impacted in efforts trying to protect.  The West side of Priest Lake use to be a Winter destination for hundreds, if not thousands of riders each year.  The place is now a ghost town come Jan/Feb, resulting in major economic challenges for business owners and many others.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

How educated are you about the numbers of Caribou in the panhandle?  I’m willing to bet I’ve spent more time in their “habitat” than most.  I’m fairly well connected to the business owners and residents of that area.  That said, I can’t think of anyone that’s ever seen one of these ghosts.  Check that, even a track.  I’m with you and most when it comes to protecting a species and doing what we can as conservationist to protect said herd and support reviving efforts.  That said, sorry, the efforts over the past 15 years have done more harm than good in my opinion.  Real people, real lives have been adversely impacted in efforts trying to protect.  The West side of Priest Lake use to be a Winter destination for hundreds, if not thousands of riders each year.  The place is now a ghost town come Jan/Feb, resulting in major economic challenges for business owners and many others.

I have seen them there.

I also spend ~40-50 winter days a year at Priest Lake, mostly North and West, and see the snowmobile/snowbike traffic.  There are literally thousands of miles of trail, road, and play areas available to over snow travel.  You're overplaying the implications of the injunction.

How much do you suppose the 2008 economic downturn impacted those businesses?  A room a the only hotel in Nordman is ~$125 a night, a new sled is 5-8k, fuel is down from nearly $4.00 per gallon....yep, the handful of closed roads must be the problem.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I think the areas in NE Washington and North Idaho are on the very southern fringe of these caribou’s normal range which I believe had a significant impact as to why they didn’t thrive.

Actually even about 100 years ago that herd was still healthy enough that Teddy Roosevelt went on a hunt out of Priest Lake for them and I believe numbered in the 50-70 range as recently as the 80's. Loss of the old growth forest played a huge double-whammy role in the decline, first their food source was dependent on it, and then they cleared out areas from logging allowed moose and whitetail to move up the mountain and the predators followed behind them finally able to bridge up to the old growth subalpine area where the caribou exist

 WAcoyotehunter is the guy with the most knowledge on the subject though so I stand to be corrected if he says so

   fyi- Teddy Roosevelt did not hunt caribou in Idaho he went to what is now sandpoint to take the wildhorse trail to Kooteny lake where he hunted caribou in CANADA! I wish we could have native caribou but Idaho was definitely on the fringe of their habitat and we ended up having a few around due to migration. The enviromentalists used the caribou to push their typical agenda of locking down the forest to protect old growth forests. Same playbook they used with the spotted owl. If you want to see how succesfull that was, look up the population trends of the spotted owl next summer when you cant go outside and breath because of all the forest fires. Again caribou herds in Idaho and eastern wa would be amazing but the work needs to be done in Canada where they live FULL time. The work is killing wolves not locking up North Idaho forests from use and proper management.     

Look up the Klockmann Diary and read his report about caribou in the US portion of the Selkirks.  They hunted them to feed the miners at Continental, and the loggers throughout the region.  Caribou lived year round on Molybdenite Ridge and around Sullivan Lake.  They were absolutely part of an established population within the US portion of their range.  It was the southern extent of the range, but well within the US.

[trophyhunt]

My uneducated thoughts on the matter, maybe wdfw would rather have the caribou just vanish so they don't have the wolf conflict to deal with? Just a thought

[birddogdad]

I wish WDFW was even 1/4 as focused on saving these animals as they are on 'saving' wolves.  It's a disgrace, honestly.

wdfw is currently involved in a wolf food transplant effort from the Olympics to Cascades taking up their efforts....

[idaho guy]

I think the areas in NE Washington and North Idaho are on the very southern fringe of these caribou’s normal range which I believe had a significant impact as to why they didn’t thrive.

Actually even about 100 years ago that herd was still healthy enough that Teddy Roosevelt went on a hunt out of Priest Lake for them and I believe numbered in the 50-70 range as recently as the 80's. Loss of the old growth forest played a huge double-whammy role in the decline, first their food source was dependent on it, and then they cleared out areas from logging allowed moose and whitetail to move up the mountain and the predators followed behind them finally able to bridge up to the old growth subalpine area where the caribou exist

 WAcoyotehunter is the guy with the most knowledge on the subject though so I stand to be corrected if he says so

   fyi- Teddy Roosevelt did not hunt caribou in Idaho he went to what is now sandpoint to take the wildhorse trail to Kooteny lake where he hunted caribou in CANADA! I wish we could have native caribou but Idaho was definitely on the fringe of their habitat and we ended up having a few around due to migration. The enviromentalists used the caribou to push their typical agenda of locking down the forest to protect old growth forests. Same playbook they used with the spotted owl. If you want to see how succesfull that was, look up the population trends of the spotted owl next summer when you cant go outside and breath because of all the forest fires. Again caribou herds in Idaho and eastern wa would be amazing but the work needs to be done in Canada where they live FULL time. The work is killing wolves not locking up North Idaho forests from use and proper management.     

Look up the Klockmann Diary and read his report about caribou in the US portion of the Selkirks.  They hunted them to feed the miners at Continental, and the loggers throughout the region.  Caribou lived year round on Molybdenite Ridge and around Sullivan Lake.  They were absolutely part of an established population within the US portion of their range.  It was the southern extent of the range, but well within the US.

Ol I will check that diary out sounds interesting but its still a myth that he came to Idaho too actually hunt caribou he came THROUGH Idaho to hunt them across the border in Canada.  I am not saying he didn't shoot some in Idaho and I will check that out but I am tired of people always saying he came to Idaho to hunt caribou that was not the plan they had, they were going to kootenay lake to set up hunting camp there. I hope you can do something to create a caribou herd but it seems like once everyone started talking about it we had a few stragglers not a  herd of any sort. It make me nervouse about the intentions of some when they discover a crisis and start talking about old growth forest etc etc. I am not talking about your efforts what you and others are doing is awesome I just hope its not in vain. I can also see some enviro groups using the caribou as a sledgehammer just to close down more forests.  I asked mitch friedman  how he felt about his anti logging anti use policies and he said fantastic they saved the spotted owl. I don't think so and if you look at the results it just led to a lot of mismanagement and forest fires. The spotted owl population plummeted after all that. You know a lot more about the population dynamics of all this I just know what I see happen as in results. Most of the hardcore environmentalist policies I think have had terrible results for what they are supposed to be saving. I know you are in the woods most days but many of these people are not ever in the woods unless its some nature hike vacation from the big city. Rant over   Anyways, the Teddy caribou hunt Is just a pet peeve carry on the good work.