License suspensions

[jadeball1]

So..... I got a letter from the WDFW saying my license was suspended because I received 3 infractions in the past 10 years. I paid these infractions not knowing that a payment is the same as a conviction. My understanding was you could pay a infraction without admitting guilt and they would not go towards a suspension. In the 2018 hunting regulation book, it stated that a bail forfeiture or payment of infraction would not go towards a suspension. The state requires me to request a appeal in order to continue to hunt or fish and a advisory board will decide if I have any merit that would warrant the revocation of my suspension. After calling the state, they said that the information in the regs is old, that if I read the RCW- it states a payment is the same as a conviction and warrants suspension. I call BS, has anyone gone through this before and provide any advice on how to deal with this mess?

[bornhunter]

What were the violations? Are you sure they were all infractions and not criminal violations. That would make a difference?

[bigtex]

Yes payment of the fine is considered a conviction but it depends on the year of the offense.

What are the violations? You can send me a private message if you want. Some infractions count towards license suspension, some don't. All criminal offenses count towards suspension.

[Mfowl]

No personal experience but someone I know received a suspension. Their appeal was denied. None of the infractions were criminal. 2 fishing salmon with barbed hooks (or insufficiently crimped hooks) and one pulling a shrimp pot after fishing time ended. Even though the shrimp were rail dumped and not retained. Had he known better at the time he would have fought each infraction as they occured. Since he paid them they counted towards his license suspension instead.

[Special T]

No personal experience but someone I know received a suspension. Their appeal was denied. None of the infractions were criminal. 2 fishing salmon with barbed hooks (or insufficiently crimped hooks) and one pulling a shrimp pot after fishing time ended. Even though the shrimp were rail dumped and not retained. Had he known better at the time he would have fought each infraction as they occured. Since he paid them they counted towards his license suspension instead.

I would give up hunting and fishing if that was how I lost my ability to hunt/fish.


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[pianoman9701]

  This should get good in about 5, 4, 3,...

[N7XW]

This should get good in about 5, 4, 3,...

[2MANY]

Get a lawyer, pay the money, and get off.

It's the American way.

[Rainier10]

Get a lawyer, pay the money, and get off.

It's the American way.

If the regs say one thing and RCW is different and they admitted that the regs are now incorrect seems like an easier case than proving a spike bull could be a branched antler bull/bullwinkle.

[KFhunter]

Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"

but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.

and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet. 

I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.

[bigtex]

Get a lawyer, pay the money, and get off.

It's the American way.

If the regs say one thing and RCW is different and they admitted that the regs are now incorrect seems like an easier case than proving a spike bull could be a branched antler bull/bullwinkle.

This is a good thing for people to understand. The regulation booklet is NOT the law. If WDFW wanted to they could be like California and simply copy and paste RCWs and WACs from the legal book into the reg book and say have at it boys! But, they try to make it into plain English.

You all also need to understand that the legal system in WA for resource crimes changed in 2012. Prior to 2012 you could be handed a misdemeanor citation with a fine and pay it just like a traffic ticket (it was referred to as bail forfeiture). If you paid it you were pleading guilty to the misdemeanor offense. In 2012 the Supreme Court changed the rule and now require those charged with misdemeanors appear before a judge (no more fines on criminal tickets). In 2005 WDFW changed a bunch of regulations from misdemeanors to infractions, the state legislature has said offenses which were misdemeanors in 2005 and have subsequently been downgraded to an infraction STILL count towards license suspension. But "new" infractions created after 2005 do not count.

[bigtex]

Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"

but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.

and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet. 

I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.

And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.

Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.

As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.

[Sandberm]

Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"

but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.

and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet. 

I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.

And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.

Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.

As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.

I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?

Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.

Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?

[bigtex]

Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"

but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.

and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet. 

I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.

And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.

Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.

As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.

I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?

Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.

Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?

The OP has yet to say what the 3 violations are (are they infractions or misdemeanors, there is a difference) or send me a message about it.

As far as your wheels off the road statement. State law requires the at-fault driver be cited when there is an LE response to a wreck. That being said do LEOs always follow that law, no. But then they are in a hard place where the LEO isn't following the law as well.

For the no helmet situation we don't know the facts. It's the typical "I heard that....." It could be as simple as KF stated or it may not. Heck I've heard stories of tickets I've written but I've never even written the ticket! But besides the point if the guy was riding an ATV without a helmet the law was broken. Every officer has different discretion, some WSP Troopers start citing speeders at 10 over the limit, others start at 15. But like I said before, the guy could fight it in court. I can tell you in the counties I patrol a no helmet ATV ticket will not be tossed by the judge without some evidence showing that the entire incident was a fabrication, there's just been too many ATV accidents in the area.

[Sandberm]

Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"

but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.

and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet. 

I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.

And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.

Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.

As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.

I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?

Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.

Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?

The OP has yet to say what the 3 violations are (are they infractions or misdemeanors, there is a difference) or send me a message about it.

As far as your wheels off the road statement. State law requires the at-fault driver be cited when there is an LE response to a wreck. That being said do LEOs always follow that law, no. But then they are in a hard place where the LEO isn't following the law as well.

For the no helmet situation we don't know the facts. It's the typical "I heard that....." It could be as simple as KF stated or it may not. Heck I've heard stories of tickets I've written but I've never even written the ticket! But besides the point if the guy was riding an ATV without a helmet the law was broken. Every officer has different discretion, some WSP Troopers start citing speeders at 10 over the limit, others start at 15. But like I said before, the guy could fight it in court. I can tell you in the counties I patrol a no helmet ATV ticket will not be tossed by the judge without some evidence showing that the entire incident was a fabrication, there's just been too many ATV accidents in the area.

Thanks for responding. I always respect your posts.

One of these days I'm going to get a ticket for not having a helmet on while I'm riding around the farm on my motorcycle(two wheels). And I will be pissed.

 I've been riding around without a helmet for almost 40 years and been just fine. I'm not going fast. I make frequent stops and to have a helmet on would be rediculousy hot and uncomfortable as I deal with irrigation, etc. Though I see the local mega orchards make their employees wear silly half helmets while they ride 4 wheelers around. They are often over the top of a cap and not secured. The employees look thrilled.

Anyways, its beside the point, sorry for the thread hijack. Just curious how bad his infractions were. Misscounted his limit of trout? Barbed hook? Hunting on the Hanford reservation? Fishing with a pitchfork at the hatchery?