Orca report

[JimmyHoffa]

We could instantly increase available chinook by the hundreds of thousands.  All we'd have to do is stop harvesting 80% of the fish in Alaska and BC.  Sounds simple, right?

My guess is that if you end up with a significant cutback in AK-BC, then fishing would be stopped here for non tribals.  I think seals/seal lions are probably the most immediate solution to provide for killer whales and fisherman.  Then do some number shuffling with AK-BC to get another 20% or more back down here.

Seal and sealions are not the most immediate.  Much of what they eat are smolts, which obviously take a few years to return.  Even if we stopped predation today, you'd see the results 3-5 years down the road.  We could stop harvesting this year's fish now.

And, why would washington have to stop harvesting washington fish if AK/BC laid off?  I can agree that the Washington ocean fishery would probably need to be curtailed to allow the orcas their shot at the fish, but terminal fisheries would be far improved.

I think most of the seafood companies, boat owners, captains, etc that operate in Alaska commercially are from Washington.  If they are going to take some hits, the politicians they've bought (especially in this state) will take more action to ensure their economic survival which would likely involve a major trimming of local fishing.  Politics not biological sense.  Anything that makes it to freshwater isn't really of any concern to puget sound killer whales (in the immediate sense).

[bigdave]

Good luck replacing them with coal fired on Reactor power



The high cost of tearing down the Snake River Dams
By TODD MYERS  |  POLICY NOTES Mar 21, 2017   
 Download file Download the full Policy Note.

Key Findings

The Snake River Dams provide about eight percent of the state of Washington’s electricity, an amount equivalent to all wind and solar production throughout Washington state.
The annual average value of electricity created from the Snake River Dams is 8.37 million megawatt hours with a value of $293.1 million.
To replace the Snake River Dams, the estimated cost per year would be $153.9 million more for a natural gas replacement and $162.2 million more for wind electricity.
Since replacements for hydro cost more, without the Snake River Dams, it would cost millions more to reduce carbon from natural gas or wind.

[jstone]

Just another money grab. This governors favorite word is Just a Billion

Clown needs to go!!

[KFhunter]

I'm generally in favor of breaching the dams, partly because they are outdated and will cost more to maintain than they produce.  Updating them makes the equation even worse.  Other than barge traffic, they really don't produce much benefit.

Well that is an interesting point, I had no idea that the cost of maintaining the dams is greater than their production of energy. 

If we loose that 8% of all Washington's electrical output (for just one dam on the snake) will that drive energy costs high enough that the maintenance of that dam would have been more cost effective? 

If we breech all of the dams...will that huge amount of loss of electrical output, and subsequent rise in electrical costs per household (subsidized for low income of course) have been worth the maintenance of the dams?

Is there a cost breakdown of this somewhere?  Hopefully a cost breakdown with projections should the dams be breached.... It seems like the success of the dams may be its own undoing?

[singleshot12]

Best salmon documentary I’ve ran into. Gives a well rounded perspective of the many problems affecting salmon runs in the northwest. If you are a fisherman, it’s worth the time.

Great show! But what NGEO didn't emphasize is the no.1 impact gill nets made in China have had on the salmon runs in the last 1/2+ century.

The elimination of nets strung across river mouths go hand in hand with tearing down dams and improving habitat.

 

[Skyvalhunter]

 

[singleshot12]

I'm generally in favor of breaching the dams, partly because they are outdated and will cost more to maintain than they produce.  Updating them makes the equation even worse.  Other than barge traffic, they really don't produce much benefit.

Well that is an interesting point, I had no idea that the cost of maintaining the dams is greater than their production of energy. 

If we loose that 8% of all Washington's electrical output (for just one dam on the snake) will that drive energy costs high enough that the maintenance of that dam would have been more cost effective? 

If we breech all of the dams...will that huge amount of loss of electrical output, and subsequent rise in electrical costs per household (subsidized for low income of course) have been worth the maintenance of the dams?

Is there a cost breakdown of this somewhere?  Hopefully a cost breakdown with projections should the dams be breached.... It seems like the success of the dams may be its own undoing?

Wind Power is the future and could easily replace the dams, but I'm sure the enviro's are looking at ways to put a wedge in that too.

[KFhunter]

but then eventually we'll have to tear down the windmills as they slaughter endangered migratory birds

[singleshot12]

Might be a little harder for them to prove than the dams tho.

[KFhunter]

Plasma reactors are our future.  Not wind, not solar, not hydro, not coal, not oil...plasma fusion reactors. 

you heard it from me first.


https://www.iter.org/

[singleshot12]

Will see if it sticks first before I buy any stock

[Huntin Hounds]

The way it has been explained to me is the lower snake river dams are the backup generators for the NW. When another power plant goes down they pickup the slack and also help during high usage times like when it's really hot or cold and people are cranking the AC or heat. If you take them out you have to replace their output capabilities. Wind and solar are not reliable enough so they are out of the question. That leaves coal, natural gas, nuclear or hydro as the only options to replace them. We aren't building anymore dams and good luck building another coal or natural gas plant. That leaves nuclear and who wants one of those in their back yard.
Hydro is currently the best crappy option for backup power production. It can begin producing power in minutes unlike days with the other options. I read a study several years ago about the effects of wind power on bat populations and other birds. They kill lots! With the amount of habitat they take up and the small amount of electricity they produce, they are just not worth the resources.
If we were serious about bringing back more salmon we would be studying reestablishing runs to the Spokane river. The biggest obstacle would be getting smolts through lake roosevelt. The state could do some testing by releasing smolts at Spokane falls with tags and seeing how many make it to Bonneville. If it makes sense put in ladders on Chief Joseph, GC, little falls, long lake and 9 mile dams. Let's try some other options before we go spending $20B on dam removal.

[Dslayer]

House cats kill more birds than wind turbines.

https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/north-america-wind-turbines-kill-around-300000-birds-annually-house-cats-around-3000000000.html

[Mudman]

None of it matters, its just politics.  10 salmon or 10 million they still will be eaten by sea lions and caught in nets.

[HntnFsh]

I'm generally in favor of breaching the dams, partly because they are outdated and will cost more to maintain than they produce.  Updating them makes the equation even worse.  Other than barge traffic, they really don't produce much benefit.

Well that is an interesting point, I had no idea that the cost of maintaining the dams is greater than their production of energy. 

If we loose that 8% of all Washington's electrical output (for just one dam on the snake) will that drive energy costs high enough that the maintenance of that dam would have been more cost effective? 

If we breech all of the dams...will that huge amount of loss of electrical output, and subsequent rise in electrical costs per household (subsidized for low income of course) have been worth the maintenance of the dams?

Is there a cost breakdown of this somewhere?  Hopefully a cost breakdown with projections should the dams be breached.... It seems like the success of the dams may be its own undoing?

Wind Power is the future and could easily replace the dams, but I'm sure the enviro's are looking at ways to put a wedge in that too.

Really, how are they going to do that? Wind mills has to have wind to work. Do you know a way to make the wind blow when you want it to. Because that's what it would take for wind power to over take hydro. Until there is a feasible way to bank the wind power generated until its needed. That's not available yet and I don't see it happening for a long time. Windmills are very inefficient, very expensive, and unreliable. With no hydro to kick in on demand we would all be dealing with rolling brown outs, black outs and extremely high power rates. The only thing that wind and solar have going for them is the subsidies they get to operate. If they didn't get subsidies you wouldnt want to pay for the electricity that comes from them. I'll have to see if I can find a recent report on cost per MWH but hydros were a fraction of wind and solar just a few years ago..

The other thing with hydros is the irrigation. Could you imagine the cost of food etc. if it weren't for the water storage that is used for irrigation. No irrigation water from wind power.

There is a lot not to like about hydro, but I don't think most people realize the changes in lifestyle they would have to make if it weren't for hydros, or dams in general.