Colockum Elk Discussion

[colockumelk]

Clockum,

If indeed the Yakima herd is doing fine then why is the wdfw reducing the number of permits?

First this has nothing to do with this subject.  2nd if you are so smart why don't you tell me.  You seem to have all the answers yet somehow don't have any research to back it up.  Stick to the subject at hand.  After this can we stick to the subject at hand or are you going to continue to jack this thread?  If so then please start your own and find your own research and data to support your own point.  Since you think that a general season 5 pt minimum for elk would work so well I'm sure you wouldn't have any trouble finding the data to back that up.

Also what does Page 65 have to do with anything?  My comment was on page 62!  Is this in reference to my comments at the meeting in Ellensburg?  If so the WDFW either lied about the 6,000 or they don't read their own research.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/2009-2011_recommendations/final_2009_03_20/elk_general_seasons_special_permit_regulations.pdf

Go to the above link and scroll down to page 62 and you'll read one of my public comments at the meeting.

My comment which was a tiny part of it says "Go permit only in the Colockum.  Bulls are down 70% in 5 years.  True Spike is not the answer."
Here's their response.  Either they are straight up lying or they don't read their own research.

There are over 6,000hunters that hunt the Colockum elk herd during the general season.  The agency is not ready to implement that drastic of a measure at this time."

If they were to look at their own studies which are at the below links they would know that on average only 4,278 hunters have hunted the Colockum.  And if you look at those numbers over the past 6 years they have been reduced by 56%

2007- 3,893 hunters
2006- 3,964 hunters
2005- 4,253 hunters
2004- 5,002 hunters
2003- 5,232 hunters
2002- 6,948 hunters

Here's the link with that info.  Like I said either they are lying or they need to read their own reports because the number they replied with "6,000" and the latest number of hunters that their reports say "3893" are two very different numbers. 
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/harvest/index.htm


 

[Karl Blanchard]

man what happened to brainstorming on road closures. Isn't it amazing how one post can send a topic into never never land?

[colockumelk]

You're right back to the brainstorming.   

Okay this is where I am at.  I've talked to the region 3 director who said that if volunteers would help out the WDFW then that would be great.  They have already been planning road closures anyways, they are just running into funding problems.  Obviously they would have someone choosing which roads to shut down.  So on the WDFW land not a problem.  The only problem is that the DNR owns most of that land.

I still need to get with the DNR and see what they think and if they'll allow us to go in there.  I'm assuming that they'll want gates if they let us since they'll want access to those places 24/7 because they care more about trees than elk and deer.  Which is okay because trees is their job.

One hunting organization in the Kittitas Valley has already told me they are against road closures so obviously they wont help.  I need to get in touch with the local RMEF and hopefully they can help since habitat managment is their purpose in life. 

One member on here has pledged that he will donate his time and heavy equipment to close roads, we just have to pay for his gas.  Which is awsome so thankyou to that person. 

Boneaddict made a suggestion which I've never heard before but sounds like an awsome one which is if they're tight on money why don't they just fall a massive tree across the road.  Instantly and cheaply closing that road down.  If they need to go in there then the WDFW or DNR simply takes a saw to it. 

Okay here's where I need help.
1.) Money.  I need to know how do you set up a non-profit account to fund this.  And what are some good ways we can take donations and also do fund raisers?
2.) I'm going to need some help doing this.  So we'll need people to be willing to help out for a day etc.  And down the road in August/September we'll need some photographers and videographers to film you know what.

[MichaelJ]

Wish i could help more Aaron, but being in idaho, and a poor college student doesn't help you out much....  That and I'll be in oregon for the summer working so again I won't be able to help.  Best of luck though and keep fightin the good fight.

Michael

[Happy Gilmore]

I would support road closures for anyone hunting with rifles. Haven't ever heard of someone taking an elk with a bow after driving to the opposite side of a draw. Hap.

[MichaelJ]

I would support road closures for anyone hunting with rifles. Haven't ever heard of someone taking an elk with a bow after driving to the opposite side of a draw. Hap.

I understand your point but what about Poachers and tribal hunting of a few bad apples?  They are both major problems in Colockum and from what I've seen most archery hunters and muzzle loader hunters aren't afraid to walk a bit (I hunt both modern and archery and think most of you will agree that rifle hunters as a group have more road hunters than any other user group).  Keep in mind this ain't an attack on any users, just logical thinkingon my part.... 

Michael

[Happy Gilmore]

I would support road closures for anyone hunting with rifles. Haven't ever heard of someone taking an elk with a bow after driving to the opposite side of a draw. Hap.

I understand your point but what about Poachers and tribal hunting of a few bad apples?  They are both major problems in Colockum and from what I've seen most archery hunters and muzzle loader hunters aren't afraid to walk a bit (I hunt both modern and archery and think most of you will agree that rifle hunters as a group have more road hunters than any other user group).  Keep in mind this ain't an attack on any users, just logical thinkingon my part.... 

Michael

Poachers and tribal hunters do not obey Wa. State game laws. Why would they obey road closures? A quick formula of effective take down range and success rate should determine the distance of road closures into a particular area. For example, a 700 win mag has an effective kill range of 700yards. A bow has a kill range of lets be generous and say 70 yards. Make the rules for road closures be relevant to the distance the chosen hunting weapon can make a kill. Fair for everyone right?

[colockumelk]

Wish i could help more Aaron, but being in idaho, and a poor college student doesn't help you out much....  That and I'll be in oregon for the summer working so again I won't be able to help.  Best of luck though and keep fightin the good fight.

Michael

That's no excuse Mike.  What, you can't rob a bank or something???

[YellowDog]

Okay here's where I need help.
1.) Money.  I need to know how do you set up a non-profit account to fund this.  And what are some good ways we can take donations and also do fund raisers?
2.) I'm going to need some help doing this.  So we'll need people to be willing to help out for a day etc.  And down the road in August/September we'll need some photographers and videographers to film you know what.
[/quote]

Sorry to say it but you will almost definately need the assistance of an attorney to set this up correctly and to address all of the issues that may arise.  What type of organization are you really wanting to form (501(c)(3), Private or Public Foundation, etc.)?You can't just go into a bank and tell them you want to open a non-profit account for an entity that does not officially exist.  That means you have bylaws, certificate of formation, and file with the Secretary of State.  There are a lot of things to consider and questions to be answered before you start taking money, IMO.  If you try taking money in under an account in your own name, people will probably shy away and you may end up with unwanted tax issues for your personal taxes.   

[bankwalker]

falling a tree would not help a thing. i know alot of guys, myself included that just cut trees out of the way when we come across them. there also the few who can just drive around them given the right truck and landscape.

those are naturaly fallen trees though

[SHANE(WA)]

A fallen tree with a WDFw sign on it saying road closed, will help. Not like pulling up to a down tree with nothing on it, anyone would move it.

[bankwalker]

A fallen tree with a WDFw sign on it saying road closed, will help. Not like pulling up to a down tree with nothing on it, anyone would move it.

it would take one guy to rip the sign off and the tree would be gone. people already dont fallow gates or signs...or even gates with signs.

you would have to do more then just gates. it would have to be trenched around both ends of the gates really good aswell. atv's will already have it easy getting around, and alot of wheelers will just look at it as a challange. it happens everywhere else thats gated, so it will be no different in colockum. so you have to make sure the gates get done right and placed in the right location where its not easy to get around. then add trenches.

note* that the average hunter wouldnt go through that trouble. but with the amount of other user groups that use the area...

[MichaelJ]

Road closures WILL help.  Just got to be the right ones...  Gates with tank traps on either side would probably do the trick.  Plus it'd make life a LOT easier to catch somebody on a backroad.  You may not catch all of the guys, but you'll catch some and word will spread...

Michael

[Happy Gilmore]

falling a tree would not help a thing. i know alot of guys, myself included that just cut trees out of the way when we come across them. there also the few who can just drive around them given the right truck and landscape.

those are naturaly fallen trees though

Sounds like a campfire

[colockumelk]

Thanks Yellow Dog.  i don't know anything about setting up a non-profit organization so that is the info I was looking to find thanks.  And thanks everyone on input on how to best close up some roads.  Thank you.  Looks like the WDFW is all about closing at least the roads that already are closed just need a phycial barrier.  The DNR that's another story in itself.  I also understand the RMEF is trying to get some grants for some road closures so I need to get back with them.  Thanks for the help and keep the advice coming.  I need all the help I can get.