WDFW Predator Lawsuit

[bearpaw]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

[ljsommer]

Passed a hunter in my unit today who told me I should just go back to my truck if I don't plan on chasing cats: He'd heard three unique cats during daylight hours.
I am all for this: let's get a handle on this situation.

[KFhunter]

Passed a hunter in my unit today who told me I should just go back to my truck if I don't plan on chasing cats: He'd heard three unique cats during daylight hours.
I am all for this: let's get a handle on this situation.

This thread may be of interest to you.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,185537.0.html

[Tbar]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Positive changes like Kretz's hero bill last year? He paved the way for predator expansion and his constituents will likely benefit little to none. If not "worded" correctly a lawsuit could set similar precedence. Also if you are following the trend of the agency it paints a picture of technical experts that'll be called upon to help decide litigation.

[huntnphool]

 Tag

[bearpaw]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Positive changes like Kretz's hero bill last year? He paved the way for predator expansion and his constituents will likely benefit little to none. If not "worded" correctly a lawsuit could set similar precedence. Also if you are following the trend of the agency it paints a picture of technical experts that'll be called upon to help decide litigation.

I know Kretz personally, he's a good guy doing a great job representing the values of the the people who vote him into office. The trend of WDFW seems to be that of predator lovers with little care for the animals that hunters used to buy licenses to pursue! Getting back to the lawsuit, I'll leave that up to the folks in the drivers seat. 

[idahohuntr]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

[mfswallace]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy? If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

You mean like the scam of the ESA or any other liberal environmentalists green predator driven agendas??

[bearpaw]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

[idahohuntr]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

[bearpaw]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

More info from lawsuit central!
It's sounding like needed funding to make this lawsuit happen is coming together. It is still requested that the source of the lawsuit remain anonymous, but I think I can say there is a lot of excitement in Washington's hunting fraternity that the prospect exists that finally there is going to be an attempt to hold WDFW's feet to the fire over their purposeful mismanagement of predators in Washington!

I have to wonder:
Mismanagement has resulted in the loss of herds and the loss of economics resulting from the loss of hunting opportunity? As word of this gets out, I have to wonder how many other interest groups will want to be a part of this lawsuit. What about cattle and sheep producers, what about motels and quick stops in rural communities, what about chambers of commerce in rural communities where hunters are no longer coming and bringing their hunting dollars, what about guide services such as my own business which has lost revenue as a result of poor predator management decisions. I'm just thinking out loud, but I have to wonder if businesses can sign onto this lawsuit, can chambers of commerce sign on, can other interest groups such as fishermen sign on, next time I speak with someone involved I'll have to ask that question.

Additional Funding:
There may be some opportunities to purchase items soon whereby a percentage of the purchase will be sent to help fund the lawsuit, I've been told the vendor will present this soon on the forum. I'm wondering if other vendors might be willing to offer items and send a p-ercentage to help fund the lawsuit. I certainly believe this is our last best chance to change the course of WDFW predator management, I might even consider throwing in a guided predator hunt in Idaho (where predator management happens) to help fund this lawsuit. I wonder if a "Go Fund Me Page" might help, I'm just floating ideas at this point?

How do you hunters think we can get the word out and help fund this lawsuit?

[pianoman9701]

I sure hope the suit includes boots-on-the-ground (and dogs), trapping, and aerial observation to attempt accurate assessments of predator populations. They've been using outdated models for too long to do their work for them.

[cavemann]

to me this is a classic opportunity for people to put their money where their mouths are.  Something has to happen and someone has to get the ball rolling.  This lawsuit whether it is successful or not can send a unified message about predator management, control and fears.  Not every idea or action is going to be the one that works, but many times we can look back to one that got the ball rolling...  Looking forward to an opportunity to contribute and hopefully those on hear with concerns followed by pages and pages of threads will show up where it counts when this kicks off.

[WSU]

I wish you luck in funding this. 

From what I've seen, raising any meaningful amount of money (in legal fee terms, like $50K) is almost impossible.  I've seen it with fisheries issues.  People are more than happy to spend $40K on a boat, buy $400 rods, and spend $300 a day on boat fuel, but getting them to donate more than $100 is about like getting them to donate a child.  Hopefully hunters are more willing to spend money on this than fisherman!

[bearpaw]

I wish you luck in funding this. 

From what I've seen, raising any meaningful amount of money (in legal fee terms, like $50K) is almost impossible.  I've seen it with fisheries issues.  People are more than happy to spend $40K on a boat, buy $400 rods, and spend $300 a day on boat fuel, but getting them to donate more than $100 is about like getting them to donate a child.  Hopefully hunters are more willing to spend money on this than fisherman!

First I know exactly what you mean about getting people to part with their money. However, this is different, people are mad as hell at WDFW, people want to show WDFW that they work for us, not us working for them!

I'm one resident in a state with a couple hundred thousand hunters. I'll pledge $500 right now and follow up with the donation when the time comes, if the suit looks good when announced I may throw in a $5000 guided lion hunt to help benefit the lawsuit. Lets see if there is support, is anyone else willing to make a small pledge at this time provided the lawsuit is filed and happens? Every $10 or $20 pledge will add up!