What will it take (a wolf thing)

[KFhunter]

Once again KF, I very much am not trying to argue specifically with you and I feel we are very much on the same page when it comes to the fact that we need to hunt wolves.  I just don't like that the wolf is being blamed for so many things that it shouldn't be blamed for. You initially responded to my comment and we started this back and forth and I did not intent to single you out in my arguments. 

My point is and has been we need to call a spade a spade and be man enough to realize that the issues we have with ungulates has far less to do with Wolves than it does bigger factors like winter range, summer range, habitat in general, and over Harvest by all user groups including predators. Another point I made and special T reiterated is our lack of involvement as a group in the discussion. I self-admittedly I'm one of those offenders. My goal for this coming year is to attend at least two meetings somewhere in the state. Since Central Washington is a redheaded stepchild of the whole state we are very much left out of the conversation but I'm dedicated to making the drive east or west do you have my voice heard. I challenge all hunting Washington members to make the same commitment.

We aren't far off in our opinions but I feel like you've branded me a wolf hater that thinks all wolves must die and that's far from the truth.  I know they're here to stay, the ranchers around me all know that they're here to stay as well.   

Literally no one actually thinks there's even a slight hope of eliminating all the wolves, but opinions vary greatly on how many wolves we should have though 

For what it’s worth I think you are both right.    I decided I also hate wolf threads!

But as much as I don’t want to comment I can’t help myself. Kf what you pointed out is correct there were wolves already here and they brought in the WRONG wolf.

I wish I could find the minutes to the meeting USFWS service had discussing the larger wolves, it's buried under a mountain of wolf talk, what I remember is they decided to go with the larger wolves hoping they would take on the Bison in YNP  (bigger wolves = bigger prey?) but what happened is they went after Elk.  In a twist of irony the Elk population in the park plummeted and Bison population rose.  Bison are harder on the stream banks than Elk.     

Also I think you need to kill 50 plus percent to stay even with the population each year so ya going to 365 day hunting season won’t reduce the population by itself. Killing wolves in the panhandle of Idaho is tough and much of Washington would be the same.
Yes, but it sounds so terrible to a non-hunter or even worse to a wolf hugger I couldn't ever see a plan like this selling to the general public without *A LOT* of pain...by pain I mean wolves populating near urban areas so bad they're eating pets and people. 

I agree 100 percent with Karl too. Over harvest by hunting can be a problem and I worry about this in Idaho with the two deer and two elk option. I have taken advantage of this and killed two Idaho deer more than a few times I have also killed two elk. My main concern is for mule deer and especially quality of our deer so quit killing 2 Idaho deer karl I don’t think I will personally buy two deer tags in Idaho again. I focused on deer hunting with my son this year and he got a huge mulie buck so I didn’t even shoot 1 Idaho deer this year. I did reduce the Montana deer population though!
I don't even hunt deer locally anymore, for WA I've opted to just hunt predators for the most part

I also agree with habitat loss and lack of logging has been a huge negative for elk and deer.
This really depends on the area in question, in many areas of the state the carrying capacity isn't anywhere near full for deer or elk, but in other areas of the state habitat may be recovering from fire, drought or too many people building in wintering areas.  I just dislike the habitat argument because it needs to be pinpointed geographically and discussed, and solutions come up with, I'm fine with that discussion but "habitat loss" is usually painted with a very wide brush. One thing I've always maintained is that habitat can always be improved and should be improved, but it's not usually the one limiting factor in herd sizes.

I also don’t hate wolves for being wolves but I hate what liberals allowed them to do to our herds through mindless lawsuits etc. I love to hunt lions too and certain people mainly deer hunters always want to kill them all! I totally disagree with this and always let lions go every year because I want them around forever. But we kill them every year too because I want deer too. I don’t think we can play god but we can and should manage wildlife and especially predators. If anyone doubts how devastating wolves can be should look at the Yellowstone elk herd 19000 to around or less than 2000. To the original point if the majority of hunters all agreed not to buy a license in one year that would get their attention and I bet they would have a few meetings closer than 3 hours to where you live! I think anti hunters did aggressively push wolf reintroduction to eliminate hunting by eliminating surplus game.

and open range cattle, and other public uses

 Not just wolves they want all predators to overpopulate. Well meaning hunters are already arguing over limiting seasons and tags to help the herds but it won’t matter what hunters do with uncontrolled predators
exactly!!

one wolf will take at least 20 to 30 animals per year and a lion kills 52 deer a year! Quit fighting and gang up you need 100 plus hunters at a meeting. Problem is most hunters have jobs and families and seems like the other side has all the time in the world

Well said man, you should up speak more often 

[idaho guy]

 :tup:I agree habitat is often a cop out to cover up sometimes bigger issues depending on the area. Habitat loss and elimination of logging (not raping the timber) but actually managing it I think are two major long term problems Idaho is going to have to deal with. But Most of the middle part of the state is wilderness so kinda hard to blame habitat loss for the dwindling elk herds. The Lolo elk herd numbers look like Yellowstone and I was amazed when an environmentalist group actually (defending wolves ) admitted stopping virtually all logging in there was to blame for the lack of feed, good habitat etc and they were at least partially responsible for shutting it down.
I guess they have a short memory and seems like instead of looking back at the results they created they always look forward to the next cause which is wolves and global warming now. Sounds like most of you or some have decided not to kill at least deer so I think it would send a strong message if everyone passed on buying for a year. They would crap their pants and probably listen to sportsmen for once. Probably not realistic

[idaho guy]

Did my part Friday on this side of the line heading back out now

[MR5x5]

So to the OP's point.

55 yr resident of this state.  Hunting since 9 yrs old.

I opted out last year and don't plan on coming back. Not just for wolves, but for all of the reasons stated (except winter kill, that is a little hard to manage).

So I will now concentrate on enjoying Idaho.  Sorry Idaho... Joined F4WM so as not to be a total freeloader.

It's more money, it's less convenient, but it is where the good fight is being fought.

FWIW Washington forest mgmt feels like amateur hour compared to Idaho.

IMHO anybody that thinks this does not ultimately come down to money and control is missing long game.

Again, not simply because of wolves but because of the multiple ways in which state gov has co-opted WDFW to be tool to enact interests not associated with their stated purpose.

If everyone took a year off from this state I guarantee the issues would see the light off day.  I think you would be surprised with how many non-hunters are sympathetic and reasonable.  They currently mostly ignorant or brainwashed.

[ne kid]

1 Bring back hound hunting. 2 Eliminate a lot of doe tags in Northeast. Make all tags Eastside/Westside or let them be controlled more locally. Don't worry about wolves as much as all predators they are all overpopulated. Maybe the Colville tribe should take over they seem to be able to keep really nice herds of deer and elk.

[Tradhunter]

Partly my thoughts lean toward SSS and also that if all hunters did not buy a license hunting and fishing, for one year, the game department and the general fund will hurt beyond belief so I see something happening with that. I do not know what that will be but I would be in for the ride.

I certainly do not mind having wolves in this state however if they were the proper native wolf things would be a lot different. From what I have seen, the wolves we now have seem to struggle a little bit taking down deer in timbered areas to gain speed. Problem is biggest in the deer winter ranges where most of our timber harvests and fire fuels are reaped from the land giving the wolves all the room to run em down.

We do have a giant issue with wildlife management but thats where if we take a stand and not purchase a license maybe they will listen? I know these meetings are cleverly scheduled so us working people cannot attend so this is the other option. What we need 1st is for our license fees to go to the game department so we can have more money to manage with, 2nd should be the people...deal with the management our wildlife herds need to be healthy and 3rd, politics...this should not even be a part in it but it always will be but it has to come last.

[Special T]

As an aside... are you willing to put some $  to the cause to support the predator lawsuit? When the detail come out I will.

I know this state needs predator control  but I also know a 1 year boycott  wont work.

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[vandeman17]

As an aside... are you willing to put some $  to the cause to support the predator lawsuit? When the detail come out I will.

I know this state needs predator control  but I also know a 1 year boycott  wont work.

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I would be happy to do either

[trophyhunt]

I support SSS and we all need to get out there in the winter and do some predator hunting, killing cats and coyotes would help out.  If the state managed game like they do predators, we'd be ok.