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Author Topic: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd  (Read 4780 times)

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2019, 07:15:27 PM »
The tribe self reporting that they're the problem for the decline is basically them giving us a big middle finger. I don't see any other reason to admit it.

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2019, 07:20:28 PM »
 :yeah: such a fine example of someone explaining how my Tribe functioned. If it were not for the historical experts of HW I wouldn't know what to do and how to do it.

 :rolleyes: :chuckle:
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2019, 07:29:27 PM »
WE, are the only reason? Couldn't migrating and not returning, or the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

There was a report posted here about cougars having a bigger impact on elk then wolves. Though I'd take it with a big scoop of salt as it does seem one-sided and narrow reporting.

But who cares, let's just blame the Natives as it's easier to point fingers at them.

 :dunno:
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Online elkrack

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2019, 07:42:13 PM »
The surveys dont count all the elk. The colock especially. There's areas elk winter in that don't get counted. Do they count the YTC herd? How many of those elk migrated because of snow in colock over rye/i-90 to YTC and stayed?

Not saying targeting of certain sexes doesn't have an adverse affect, just saying it's not the only reason.

Plat definitely has a good point here. I know rimrock suffers from a lot of poaching also.
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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2019, 07:56:12 PM »

Elk will be oil tags in Washington in a few years
[/quote]

  With the numbers that they reduced the Quality bull/bull  permits down to last year they basically are once-in-a-lifetime tags now 👎🏻
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Offline Special T

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2019, 09:11:29 PM »


the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

 :dunno:

The combination of site predators and ambush predators does way more damage  than either alone.

If you want to bust on Yakimas do it for not running hounds all across the ceded lands.

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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2019, 09:29:43 PM »


the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

 :dunno:

The combination of site predators and ambush predators does way more damage  than either alone.

If you want to bust on Yakimas do it for not running hounds all across the ceded lands.

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I think the assumption here is the Yakamas can hunt cats to numbers of their choosing.  Can they?  For the coast, WDFW bios seem to really follow the tribal cat take and use it to adjust the next year's quota (I've heard).  So, if the quota we see listed for state hunters is six cats for the GMU, then WDFW figures the tribe takes six too.  If over quota one year, then it would decrease the next.  Thinking wishfully, a few tribal houndsmen could knock back 90% of the cats--but I think WDFW has ways to counter it. 

Offline Special T

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2019, 09:31:48 PM »


the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

 :dunno:

The combination of site predators and ambush predators does way more damage  than either alone.

If you want to bust on Yakimas do it for not running hounds all across the ceded lands.

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I think the assumption here is the Yakamas can hunt cats to numbers of their choosing.  Can they?  For the coast, WDFW bios seem to really follow the tribal cat take and use it to adjust the next year's quota (I've heard).  So, if the quota we see listed for state hunters is six cats for the GMU, then WDFW figures the tribe takes six too.  If over quota one year, then it would decrease the next.  Thinking wishfully, a few tribal houndsmen could knock back 90% of the cats--but I think WDFW has ways to counter it.
If the gripes about the Yakimas  killing  elk with no recourse is true, then cats are no different.

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Offline Tinmaniac

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2019, 09:32:34 PM »
It's hard to manage anything when the rules are so different between the parties involved.

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2019, 09:47:06 PM »
WE, are the only reason? Couldn't migrating and not returning, or the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

There was a report posted here about cougars having a bigger impact on elk then wolves. Though I'd take it with a big scoop of salt as it does seem one-sided and narrow reporting.

But who cares, let's just blame the Natives as it's easier to point fingers at them.

 :dunno:
YOU are not the reason. And we should all be better about generalizing but there are definitely several members of your tribe that are at fault for this. There's really no denying it. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you on this, but it's absolutely true. Direct your anger at the bad apples on your rez giving your tribe a bad rep, not the people on this site that are justified to have the perception that we do. And yes, predators take some animals as well.

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2019, 09:50:40 PM »
And cougars take more elk than wolves because there's 10 fold more cougars.

Offline hughjorgan

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2019, 10:17:13 PM »
WE, are the only reason? Couldn't migrating and not returning, or the over abundance of cougars, bear and the newest predator the wolf also have an impact?

There was a report posted here about cougars having a bigger impact on elk then wolves. Though I'd take it with a big scoop of salt as it does seem one-sided and narrow reporting.

But who cares, let's just blame the Natives as it's easier to point fingers at them.

 :dunno:
YOU are not the reason. And we should all be better about generalizing but there are definitely several members of your tribe that are at fault for this. There's really no denying it. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you on this, but it's absolutely true. Direct your anger at the bad apples on your rez giving your tribe a bad rep, not the people on this site that are justified to have the perception that we do. And yes, predators take some animals as well.

Donít forget all the garbage that are poaching, or wdfw giving out too many cow tags and then throw in some predators and the muckleshoots and here we are with low calf recruitment; less branch antler permits and hunters arguing with other hunters.

Glad itís hunting season...

Offline Tbar

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2019, 10:26:31 PM »
https://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoors/troubling-decline-falling-elk-populations-bring-hunting-reductions/article_f8725d29-b19e-503d-af9a-0c1c18054831.html

Full article at the link above but two specific paragraphs in this that were the biggest takeaways for me are:

1.) "Local Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Jeff Bernatowicz said no studies have been done on area calves and researchers donít know why their survival numbers are historically low. Until that trend reverses, hunters must pay the price with fewer permits available and shortened seasons for archers."

Why have no studies been done on this?

2.) "Bernatowicz noted hunters could also see negative effects from a pair of factors outside their control. Access to the Yakima Training Center will be limited this fall by heavy training activity, and unofficial reports from one tribe show total tribal harvest may be exceeding the number of new branched bulls in the herd, according to the wildlife department."

So the tribe is self reporting that they're literally killing off the bulls? Killing more bulls then are being recruited as calves each year. Wow. Also the Colockum herd has declined as well. They're currently at 4,133 elk up there and the WDFW's goal is 6,000.
The colockum was an intentional herd reduction.  I believe they reduced their objectives as well....

According to the hunting prospects that were published last week, both herds are below their population objectives. And just a few years ago the Colockum herd was over 6,000 elk.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02103/district_8_hunting_prospects_2019.pdf
The population objective was 6500 they reduced the objective to 4500 and still over killed the animals. It was a targeted reduction by the department to adress social tolerance. You seem to know all so I'll stop.

Offline X-Force

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2019, 10:54:11 PM »
Colockum was over objective after having 0 cow harvest for 10 years or so.

It shouldnít be a surprise management goals, rainfall, Fire, herd objectives, etc jump around and so do populations swings. Management is always a moving target.
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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2019, 11:06:58 PM »
If and when a group has more rights or advantage over other groups then resentment and anger will be absolute.  Natives this is the facts.  No solution or answer to this.  Equality is the only recourse.  I wish natives used rights to hunt more predators, it might change public perceptions.  That said I blame predators and management more then any native abuses.
MAGA!  Again..

 


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